Tech Familiarity instead of Tech Level

[AlexanderHowl]

The problem with that is it ignores the Tech penalties. A TL2 armorer who tries to fix a TL5 firearm using TL2 tools is probably suffering a -15 to skill. Conversely, a TL5 armorer who tries to fix a TL5 firearm using TL2 tools is probably only suffering a -3 to skill. Tech level is important because it represents accumulated knowledge, not just a tool set.

[dataweaver]

In other words, it doesn't produce the same penalties that the official TL penalties produces. That's right; it doesn't. That's why it's a house rule.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

The difference is that the players don't have to concern themselves with any of that: all they need to concern themselves with is: is it Imperial, Brettonian, Nordic, or Skaven? If you're familiar with it, no penalty; if not, -3 penalty.

Uh that is not how the penalties work. If the skill is based on IQ it is -5 for each +1TL, -1 for -1TL and -2 for each additional -1TL if an IQ based skill (DX based tech skill are a flat -1 for higher or lower TL)

Also, familiarity penalties are cumulative with TL penalties.

For example a TL9 Surgeon is forced to use a TL7 scalpel. He is at -5 to his skill (-3 for the two TL difference and an additional -2 for an unfamiliar instrument). The inverse is far worse as a TL7 Surgeon would be at a staggering -12 to skill (-10 for the two TL difference and an additional -2 for an unfamiliar instrument)

If either of these surgeons are dealing with physiology differences add yet more familiarity penalties to the pile (there are a host of equipment penalties that are relevant at higher TLs but at TL5 or lower we can safely ignore them as a surgeon didn't really have much in the way of equipment.)

Originally Posted by dataweaver

The difference is that the players don't have to concern themselves with any of that: all they need to concern themselves with is: is it Imperial, Brettonian, Nordic, or Skaven? If you're familiar with it, no penalty; if not, -3 penalty.

Which is basically how the already existing Borrowed (familiar) technologies does. "A society can be familiar with technology
that it does not itself possess. This is frequently the case for low-tech societies with high-tech neighbors, and for colonies." (B513)

So TL(whatever)/4-5 (Medicine 3-4) solves this issue with players not having to worry about what the Imperial, Brettonian, Nordic, or Skaven tech is. If they have regularly seen/used it then they are at no penalty to use it. Now repairing it might be an issue but odds are they will simply have the item repaired by the local blacksmith who likely has picked up the needed variations of the TL skills.

Step back and ask yourself - just what TL based skills will the players actually use and what TL skills are more likely to be in the hands of NPCs?

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by maximara

Uh that is not how the penalties work.

You're right. That's why it's a house rule. You can argue that it's a bad house rule; but not by saying that it works differently than the official rules: the whole point of a house rule is to work differently than the official rules.

[AlexanderHowl]

Instead of having different TLs, have different divergent TLs, as the penalties would be the equivalent.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Instead of having different TLs, have different divergent TLs, as the penalties would be the equivalent.

This brings up a key point - why create such a house rule in the first place when there already existing standard rules that address the issue and solve the "problem" the house rule was to "fix" in the first place?

As I said before TL(whatever)/4-5 (Medicine 3-4) solves this issue with players not having to worry about what the Imperial, Brettonian, Nordic, or Skaven tech level is. If they have regularly seen/used it then they are at no penalty to use it. Now repairing it might be an issue but odds are they will simply have the item repaired by the local blacksmith who likely has picked up the needed variations of the TL skills.

TL;DR - the house rule is a solution in search of a problem that for all practical purposes doesn't exist.

[Anaraxes]

Nothing wrong with defining some packages, like tech meta-traits, and giving them convenient and setting-appropriate names. That way the players don't have to dig through the specifications and learn what GURPS means by "divergent" and "superscience" and "X+Y" notation. It's nice that it works out the same under the hood -- but not everyone must always be exposed to the whirling fans and gears and belts every time they want to use their car.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Nothing wrong with defining some packages, like tech meta-traits, and giving them convenient and setting-appropriate names. That way the players don't have to dig through the specifications and learn what GURPS means by "divergent" and "superscience" and "X+Y" notation. It's nice that it works out the same under the hood -- but not everyone must always be exposed to the whirling fans and gears and belts every time they want to use their car.

"Divergent", "superscience" and "X+Y" are really only a player issue if there is a lot of different TL in the setting that the players have to deal with. If there is anything resembling a trade network and there are mostly non isolationists civilizations then the TL is going to even out a bit.

Conversely TL differences within a setting may not really be relevant - "a blacksmith in 1850s England uses TL3 techniques to shoe the horses that pull the carriage the gentleman rides to catch his TL5 train to London." (Basic Set 511) Heck, Blacksmith/TL3 was still viable well into TL6 as motor cars were a rich man's toy until Henry Ford came up with a method to make them cheap enough for the middle class to afford in 1908 and even then it would not be until the 1920s when the car replaced the horse. Our own powergrid is a mixture of TL6 though 8 just on the power plant side while on the consumer side the range is getting to TL6 through 9.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by maximara

Borrowed (familiar) technologies: TLKnown/Familiar. Example: TL1/2 (Bronze Age society familiar with Iron Age technology). For societies familiar with other level of technologies but not able (or willing) to replicate them.

I used to know a retired Hmong warrior that was transported to the states to take a course in air coordination. Presumably he was reasonably effective at that but I doubt he was ever therefore capable of designing a Phantom.

[Varyon]

There's a certain simplicity to this concept that I like. Basically, you can take a number of cultures at fairly different GURPS TL's (due to divergence, superscience/magic, advancement/retardation in specific fields, etc), and just ignore all of the potentially-complicated mechanics of the TL system. You could optionally add in nuances if needed - a particularly complex tech paradigm might be used at -5 if you lack Tech Familiarity, while a particularly simple one might be at only -1 (it may be appropriate to charge more or less, respectively, for such familiarities).