Boosting spells with extra ST

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by warhorse11h

More importantly, I have a suggestion. Advanced Wizard, pg 4, right hand column, at the bottom of the page states, "A Creation Spell for a given area includes all the spells of the same type for lesser areas. For instance, a wizard who knows 3-Hex Fire is also assumed to know the one-hex Fire spell, at no extra IQ cost. A wizard with the 7-hex Illusion automatically knows 4-Hex Illusion...and so on.
This holds true for Illusion, Image, Fire, Wall, and Shadow.

Apparently, this rule still exists... ITL, pg 137. The explanation is confusing, though, since the examples are from higher to lower versions. Would the opposite also be true? If I select 'Illusion' first does that mean I automatically get the multi-hex versions when my IQ gets increased?

[platimus]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Never said 'perfect' my friend, only 'preferred'. And I know I could use more IQ sometimes.
;)

Just givin' you a friendly poke in the ribs, amigo ;)

[EKB]

My house rules allow increased duration to many (most) spells in exchange for paying a higher up-front St cost. But then I've also increased the base duration of most spells, as an alternative to giving wizards more St batteries/powerstones/platoons of apprentices casting Aid spells/etc.

For obvious reasons, missile spells don't get an increased duration.

As for more St giving more area to area-effect spells, nope! You want more area, you gain the IQ needed to learn the more area versions of Fire, Illusion, Wall, etc.

Apparently, this rule still exists... ITL, pg 137. The explanation is confusing, though, since the examples are from higher to lower versions. Would the opposite also be true? If I select 'Illusion' first does that mean I automatically get the multi-hex versions when my IQ gets increased?

That's a good question. I've never had to make a ruling on it. I wouldn't require the character to pay additional points for the improved spell, but I'm not certain if I'd make learning the multi-hex version automatic or if I'd require the improved version to be listed as "under study."

[David Bofinger]

Knowing a hex-based creation spell lets you cast the spell with a smaller area. It's an obvious house rule candidate to extend this to creation spells like Summon Dragon and thrown spells like Megahex Freeze and Megahex Sleep. If anyone has done this, what were your experiences?

[EKB]

I've house-rule extended the list of "includes" spells, and would have to go back to check which ones are official and which are via my house rules. In any case, nothing has blown up.

As I've mentioned above, the part I haven't nailed down is whether (e.g.) an IQ 17 wizard who knows Freeze and Summon Small Dragon will automatically get Megahex Freeze and Summon Dragon on increasing to IQ 18, or whether the new spells have to be "under study" for that to happen. The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to allow the first.

[DeadParrot]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Apparently, this rule still exists... ITL, pg 137. The explanation is confusing, though, since the examples are from higher to lower versions. Would the opposite also be true? If I select 'Illusion' first does that mean I automatically get the multi-hex versions when my IQ gets increased?

RAW, I would say no. But this leads to two wizards, both know 7,5,3 & 1 hex spells. Wizard 1 has invested 1 point later in career. Wizard 2 has invested 4 points starting early. Fair? Wizard #2 got the use of the spells early and may be alive due to having a 1 hex spell available.

Maybe allow Wizard 2 to invest X amount of time and cash to expand a 1 hex spell to 3 when IQ is high enough. Also require Wizard 1 to invest similar time and cash to learn the lower hex spells once the higher one is bought.

[Shostak]

I used to be in the camp that believes that a wizard who knows a basic version of a spell, like Avert, must spend XP to learn an advanced version of that spell—in this case Megahex Avert. But I’ve come around to thinking that it harms nothing to let a wizard get the advanced version simply by virtue of increasing IQ to meet the prerequisite. This approach also increases fun, in my experience, by allowing the player to spend the precious XP on spells or talents that broaden the character’s abilities rather than deepening them.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by DeadParrot

RAW, I would say no. But this leads to two wizards, both know 7,5,3 & 1 hex spells. Wizard 1 has invested 1 point later in career. Wizard 2 has invested 4 points starting early. Fair? Wizard #2 got the use of the spells early and may be alive due to having a 1 hex spell available.

I'm not following the logic here. If Wizard 1 spends only 1 point to learn the 7-hex spell (and so knows the lesser 5, 3, and 1 hex versions for free), then Wizard 2 also pays only 1 point to learn the 1-hex version early, then 0 more points for each upgrade to 3, 5, and 7-hex each time their IQ goes up far enough.

I see no reason to have charged Wizard 2 more points to get to the same level with the same spell as Wizard 1. Nor should Wizard 1 have room to know three more spells than Wizard 2 once they are both at the same IQ, that being the IQ needed for the 7-hex spell.

[DeadParrot]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

I'm not following the logic here. If Wizard 1 spends only 1 point to learn the 7-hex spell (and so knows the lesser 5, 3, and 1 hex versions for free), then Wizard 2 also pays only 1 point to learn the 1-hex version early, then 0 more points for each upgrade to 3, 5, and 7-hex each time their IQ goes up far enough.

I see no reason to have charged Wizard 2 more points to get to the same level with the same spell as Wizard 1. Nor should Wizard 1 have room to know three more spells than Wizard 2 once they are both at the same IQ, that being the IQ needed for the 7-hex spell.

But that is not how the RAW read. There is no written rule that states a wizard that knows the 1 hex spell automagically gets the larger spells for free. There is a rule that states a wizard that knows a multi hex spell gets all the lower numbers of hex spells for free.

That was the point of my suggestion of allowing both wizards to spend cash and time instead of XP/IQ points to add the extra hex spells no matter which one was learned first. Not a perfect solution as the one who buys the 1 hex spell still has several adventures worth of benefit of the spell that the one who waits until later doesn't get. But it does avoid the issue of one wizard spending 1 IQ point and the other 4 to get to the same place.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by DeadParrot

That was the point of my suggestion of allowing both wizards to spend cash and time instead of XP/IQ points to add the extra hex spells no matter which one was learned first. Not a perfect solution as the one who buys the 1 hex spell still has several adventures worth of benefit of the spell that the one who waits until later doesn't get. But it does avoid the issue of one wizard spending 1 IQ point and the other 4 to get to the same place.

It seems easier to just allow the acquisition of the more powerful version of the spell when IQ reaches the requirement. And, given that TFT IQ stands for many things, having it be the key to unlock greater power seems appropriate.