Things players say to me

[Hide]

Originally Posted by lachimba

Me:

Where do you want to kick him

Player: It says here that skull is -7 to hit.
We do tai kwan do and its easier to hit the head than the body.

Me: yeah and I do Muay Thai and Im pretty sure the GURPS MA authors know martial arts. Are you really sure that you arent just practicing hitting the head over and over again in a sporting environment and that means you think that its easier but in real life people tend to raise their hands to block their head. Do you also think that maybe the head is a smaller target than the large torso and generally people trying to hit it with projectiles and weapons have at least some penalty.

Player: no the head is easier to hit.


Me: ....

First, Tae Kwon Do in the dojo/tournament is different than Tae Kwon Do in a real fight. An opponent is not necessarily committed to the rules of Tae Kwon Do (in which you usually avoid using your hands, for the sake of making points, for starters).

On the other hand, you could also say that in Tae Kwon Do, they teach you techniques to buy off the penalty to strike the head (That's on the martial arts book).

- Hide

[Kax]

Lachimba:


So, go do the thing, run what you want. Even one convert is good. Visibility is better, especially if you make a point about the number and quality of resource books.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by lachimba

Me:

Where do you want to kick him

Player: It says here that skull is -7 to hit.
We do tai kwan do and its easier to hit the head than the body.

Me: yeah and I do Muay Thai and Im pretty sure the GURPS MA authors know martial arts. Are you really sure that you arent just practicing hitting the head over and over again in a sporting environment and that means you think that its easier but in real life people tend to raise their hands to block their head. Do you also think that maybe the head is a smaller target than the large torso and generally people trying to hit it with projectiles and weapons have at least some penalty.

Player: no the head is easier to hit.


Me: ....

yes, GURPS' random hit location table and hit location penalties are an old part of the system, before good sources were available, and they lump together projectiles, thrusts, blows, and kicks into one system for convenience. In the real world, blows with weapons tend to land on the edges of the silhouette (Skull, Face, Neck, Arms, Legs) while projectiles tend to hit things in proportion to their exposed surface area, but the default rules are SIMPLE and let you get on with the fight. There are various optional rules in eg. GURPS Martial Arts and GURPS Martial Arts: Gladiators if you want to represent how different types of attacks behave more accurately, but as always, its much easier to make something more complicated than to make it more realistic. Posture, measure, the weapon used, presence of shields or armour all affect which targets are good ones.

In addition, what counts as a hit in a point-scoring game like SCA heavy fighting or a TKD tournament is not always the same as a Hit in GURPS combat. The Defensive Attack and Telegraphic Attack options in GURPS MA can help to represent techniques like these which deliver a touch but would not inflict as much damage as a basic Attack in GURPS.

[Michael Cule]

Thinking about it, kicking in the head should be hard. High kicks are hard and leaping kicks harder.

(Well, they look harder to an unhealthy old git who has never done either in his life.)

Punching in the head though....

Your fists are about the right height, you are going to be more able to hit the upper body with your fist than you are the leg.

(Has to be said I've never punched anyone in the head either.)

But do we really want to go for different hit location modifiers for hands (and hand held weapons) and for feet?

And you can hit someone standing in front of you with a spear just about anywhere.

This could easily get more complex than most people want to deal with.

[AlexanderHowl]

Honestly, arms are not easier to hit than torsos when it comes to swing attacks. Consider the problem in three dimensions. The torso is much thicker than both arms and much wider, so a swinging attack will be have a greater chance to hit the torso, even if the attack is coming from the side.

[Polydamas]

Yes, there are other optional rules to make kicking the face harder and stamping a foot easier.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Honestly, arms are not easier to hit than torsos when it comes to swing attacks. Consider the problem in three dimensions. The torso is much thicker than both arms and much wider, so a swinging attack will be have a greater chance to hit the torso, even if the attack is coming from the side.

You might think so in theory, but not in practice.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Honestly, arms are not easier to hit than torsos when it comes to swing attacks. Consider the problem in three dimensions. The torso is much thicker than both arms and much wider, so a swinging attack will be have a greater chance to hit the torso, even if the attack is coming from the side.

In practice, however, the arms are more likely to be hit in most cases because they are likely to be in the way - in melee at least, ranged combat is another beast altogether...

[shawnhcorey]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

In practice, however, the arms are more likely to be hit in most cases because they are likely to be in the way - in melee at least, ranged combat is another beast altogether...

Arms are less likely to be hit because they can be moved out of the way quickly. It's only when you aim at the head or torso would they be placed in the way to block. Legs can also be moved quickly out of the way but not as quick as arms. The hardest thing to move out of the way is your centre of mass. That's why not called-shots are considered to aimed at the torso.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by lachimba

We do tai kwan do and its easier to hit the head than the body.
..
the head is easier to hit.

Barring some kind of alien species with giant heads or a human who is crawling toward you (or perhaps a very exaggerated crouch which thrusts the head forward and body back) it's hard to see how what your player is saying would be the case.

Unless he figures the arms tend to passively get in the way of the torso more than the head and you hit those instead, which can be true. It takes more effort to hold your arms up higher.

The kind who lean forward dramatically, denying the body and presenting the head tend to realize they need to guard their faces more and their bodies less so it would even out some. That would be an exhausting posture to maintain for longer fights.

[joppeknol]

Back to the OP. I think the problem is made too specific. In every simulation of reality there will be things that don't fit your world view. I have my issues about some GURPS-rules as well.

Avoid that discussion in a game session. If one of those people want to GM a GURPS game, they can give a bonus to kicking the head if they feel like it. If the players can live with it, have fun.

If it's your game, you decide the rules. If you stick to vanilla GURPS, that's your prerogative (I tend to make IQ, per, will independent attributes). Discussions about the validity of those rules should come after the game or in a GURPS forum.

Thinking a RPG is bad or unplayable because it doesn't fit your worldview about kicks to the head is silly IMHO.