Initiate HTH contradiction

[RobW]

p102-103 "List of Options". Initiate Hand-to-hand attack is an option only for engaged figures, not for disengaged ones.

p116 "Hand to Hand Combat": "To initiate HTH combat, a figure moves onto the enemy’s hex. If the attacking figure is disengaged, this is a regular move." Well, this wouldn't be a legal option according to the List of Options.

[larsdangly]

This is a problem and I hope the author or someone else involved in the production addresses it. It is clear that attempting to enter HTH is a form of (or stands in place of) an attack. But what isn't clear is whether this can be in place of a charge attack (i.e., where you start disengaged and close distance to the target, moving up to half your MA). I have always played that thisis how it works and I still think that is the sensible ruling, but with so may new players getting interested in the game I think its important to get critical combat mechanics rulings very clear.

[Skarg]

This is clearly a result of using the basic-Melee form of the Options list in the new ITL, but including the Advanced Melee rules for HTH. The (1980) Advanced Melee version of the Options list clearly indicates that a disengaged figure can attempt too initiate hand to hand combat if they move 1/2 MA or less.

There are several things that the Advanced Melee rules (and option list) let figures do, which can appear to not be allowed, IF you read the option list as a list of the only combinations of movement and actions that can be done, as we'd discussed in another recent thread.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by RobW

only for engaged figures, not for disengaged ones.

Perhaps the natural rule is that disengaged characters can do anything engaged characters can.

[larsdangly]

This is related to the Dodge/Defend thread, where it was recognized that you can't defend against a jabbing pole arm. That's goofy enough that I would have house ruled the correct outcome without realizing I was violating the letter of the law.

[Steve Jackson]

Does adding "or HTH" after "with any weapon except a middile weapon" resolve the issue for you?

[platimus]

i'm afraid the issue is larger than just HTH. I think the following makes the intent of the options list MUCH more clear:

List of Options
An option is a set of actions. A figure may execute one
option each turn, and may not mix actions from different
options. The options available to a figure depend on whether
it is engaged, disengaged, or in HTH combat at the moment
its turn to move or act comes. During a turn, a player may change
his mind about a figure’s option, as long as
• that figure has not yet acted, and
• that figure did not move too far to allow it to take the
new option.

Options for Engaged Figures
A figure which is engaged with an enemy (see definition,
p. 101) when its turn comes to move or act may perform any one of
the following options:

The bold "or act" is the only thing I edited/added. There might be one or two issues left after adding those 4 words but those 4 words would have led me to interpret the options the way Advanced Melee listed them (mostly).

I think it would be best separate the movement part of options from the action part of options as RobW has done in the Dodge thread here: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...9&postcount=73
but I completely understand not wanting or being able to completely rewrite the combat options at this point.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Does adding "or HTH" after "with any weapon except a middile weapon" resolve the issue for you?

I think so, if you mean before - since space is tight, how about:
"attack with any weapon except a missile weapon."
-->
"attack with a non-missile weapon, or enter HTH."
?