Pak Protecters in GURPS

[ericthered]

I think pak are one of those cases where IQ 20 actually makes sense. They're very very good at manipulating humans, genius inventors, can pick up and understand complex tasks without study... All of the insane things that we complain about in IQ 20 actually makes sense for them.



Yes, protectors are very very ridiculous and broken. Single individuals are capable of changing the fates of worlds.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

The stats are really going to depend on where, exactly, you draw the Protectors from Niven's continuity. They got steadily more impressive over time. There's quite a gap between Jack Brennan, who's smarter than most humans, but capable of error (for example, failing to think of the Pak colonizing fleet), and Louis Wu, literally incapable of comprehending his own thought processes once he gets "reset" back to baseline humans

I prefer the earlier versions of the Protectors, where they're not invincible, impossible-to-outthink demigods, so my comments will be geared along those lines.

I'm mostly thinking of Brennan and Pthssspok as my models here.

I think IQ+10 is much too high, for a couple of reasons. First, it doesn't leave any room for variation - practically all human-derived Protectors will be identical intelligence levels, sitting at 20. I feel there should be some room for differences in Protector intelligence, whether from starting from an inherently higher-intelligence baseline, or long experience. Second, high IQ on its own doesn't really do much of what the Protectors manage to do - I think you need other advantages for that, which I'll cover below.

There is room for variance. Protectors made from Pak/Homo Habilis (and probably Morlocks) are pretty stable at 16, Protectors made from humans range from 20-25 (I figure in GURPS terms Louis Wu probably had a higher starting IQ than Jack Brennan)

I'd make the human-baseline Protector IQ boost be something like +5 or +6 - enough to make even an average human into a genius, but leaving room for improvement above it. For a baseline barely sapient breeder, like a Pak, I'd peg the IQ boost at more like +8. That's enough to turn an IQ 6 breeder into something comfortably smarter than a human, but not as intelligent as, say, Brennan post-transformation.

The template is meant to be universal across hominids; a Neanderthal gets the same ST boost as a Homo Sapiens, leaving a higher final ST (Also in Known Space Neanderthals are telepathic, and a Protector version would either be utterly terrifying or notably more chill than average).
ETA: And the IQ boost needs to take a subject from 'clever chimp' to 'supergenius'

If you've got it, I'd also strongly recommend the Foresight advantage, from the article "Fortunately, I Saw This Coming" in Pyramid #3/53. It's a generalization of the Gizmo rules, allowing the character to retroactively declare they did something, brought some piece of gear, or otherwise were prepared, and it's one of the best traits I know to describe a cinematically intelligent character, which Protectors definitely qualify for.

Unfortunately not

Originally Posted by Agemegos

Should there be a bunch of taboo traits such as "Lecherous", reflecting protectors' fundamental change of motivations?

Sexless should cover that pretty well.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

I'm mostly thinking of Brennan and Pthssspok as my models here.

Sexless should cover that pretty well.

I could see a Protector as the ultimate creepy stalker / alien kidnapper in order to procure mates for its breeders.
EDIT TO ADD: That is in Re Agamegos, a sexless protector might still be interested in pursuing suitable mates for its breeder troop.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I think pak are one of those cases where IQ 20 actually makes sense. They're very very good at manipulating humans, genius inventors, can pick up and understand complex tasks without study... All of the insane things that we complain about in IQ 20 actually makes sense for them.

Yes. Even a baseline Pak Protector was so intelligent that he could, simply by examining the engine of Brennan's ship for an hour or two, reach the point where he could have duplicated it if he had had the necessary raw materials. That's _enormously_ greater than human intelligence.

Of course, that's not as impressive as the magic drive the original Pak used to come to the Solar System in the first place...

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

Yes. Even a baseline Pak Protector was so intelligent that he could, simply by examining the engine of Brennan's ship for an hour or two, reach the point where he could have duplicated it if he had had the necessary raw materials. That's _enormously_ greater than human intelligence.

Of course, that's not as impressive as the magic drive the original Pak used to come to the Solar System in the first place...

My reading was that Phsthpok arrived in a ramship which is still a fusion driven ship but with a ramscoop to gather fuel (now known to be feasible). The gravity polarizer is magical, but specifically only works down gravity wells rather than between systems.

I have to take issue with Rupert, the enlarged finger joints can improve dexterity as well as strength if the muscle attachment is reversed so that it is like the larger fine adjustment knob on an instrument. There can still be a tradeoff for speed, but we have to think of the setting's fiat that people become more graceful and visibly less clumsy after a century or two under boosterspice; Pak presumably are the end result of the process where they always move right the first time with the best possible precision.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

Yes. Even a baseline Pak Protector was so intelligent that he could, simply by examining the engine of Brennan's ship for an hour or two, reach the point where he could have duplicated it if he had had the necessary raw materials.

I don't think that feat is necessarily explained by high overall IQ, though. Pthssspok wasn't "baseline" when it came to starship engine maintenance. They were not only involved in the construction of their own ship in the first place, but they had also controlled the ship's drive manually through their entire voyage, at least using far less automation than a human would be comfortable with. Pthssspok's point levels in Mechanic (Fusion Drive) must have been enormous, simply from on-the-job training! And even if they didn't have any levels at all in Engineer (Fusion Drive), their default from Mechanic would have still have been quite good.

To judge Pthssspok's overall IQ, you also have to look at where, and how, he failed. And Pthssspok makes a couple notable errors in IQ-based skills that suggest, to me, that their IQ can't be absurdly high. First, of course, is the fact that they clearly rolled more poorly than Brennan did on Psychology, to work out the probable human reaction to Tree of Life, allowing Brennan to get the drop on Pthssspok. In fact, Brennan speculated that Pthssspok still thought Brennan was just behaving like a "normal" Protector, killing a competitor to ensure his own bloodline's monopoly on the transformation.

Second, though, and much more hugely, is Pthssspok's flub of a roll in the first place, putting Brennan into his cargo hold with inadequately secured Tree of Life. Pthssspok looked at Brennan and, knowing what an untransformed breeder looked like, decided that Brennan wasn't related, to the point where they were surprised that Brennan had eaten the root and undergone the change. That, to me, is a major failure, if not a critical failure, on Biology, or Physiology, or something. I doubt very much that anyone trained in even TL 8 levels of those skills, when presented with an example of Homo sapiens next to one of Homo habilis, wouldn't instantly conclude they were closely related. Pthssspok doesn't even have the excuse of living in a universe where "parallel evolution" turns up humanoids on every world, because Niven was always pretty careful about having aliens be alien in Known Space, with very clearly different body plans.

So, my feeling is that Pthssspok must have been rolling their Biology or Physiology at default there, and must have had an effective skill level lower than 10, and probably notably lower, for that kind of failure to be probable.


In any case, I'm not arguing that Protectors in general don't have higher IQ than baseline humans. They clearly do. However, I'm arguing that you don't really need to give them IQs at the stratospheric levels that the +10 the template has suggests. Much of their intelligence is better portrayed by giving them other "smart" traits, such as the list I suggested, and assuming that they frequently have a lot of points sunk into skills as well.

That's enormously greater than human intelligence.

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

Of course, that's not as impressive as the magic drive the original Pak used to come to the Solar System in the first place...

Which magic drive was that? The original drive was actually described as quite a bit less effective than Pthssspok's, with the trip taking far longer than Pthssspok's ramjet design allowed. I believe it was described as an ion drive, actually, though a real-world ion drive probably wouldn't produce even the performance they got. Remember, though, that their trip took so long that some of the Protectors actually died of old age, which wasn't thought possible up until then.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

*'Hard enough to turn a copper knife'; max ST for a large knife is 16, so max thrusting damage for a protector with such a knife would be 7.

That's not how GURPS looks at DR. DR to protect against something should be equal to the average damage from that attack (rounded down is that's an odd number). Also, the maximum ST for a large knife is ST18, for 3d-2 cut and 1d+2 thrust. Also, "to turn a copper knife" is not the same as "to provide immunity to a copper knife". On top of that, DR7 is far tougher than an man-sized mammal's hide. It's heavy plate territory, and Protectors were supposed to be a naturally evolved extension of normal humans. DR2 will stop most knife blows from normal strength opponents, and is more in line with thick hide of actual animals.

Also, I never thought of Protectors as being that much more dextrous than humans, and their greater strength being derived from enlarged joints and increased leverage would actually tend to lower their fine control. I'd add Speed rather than massive amounts of DX.

I seem to recall that they also lost their teeth and gained a form of beak.

[Agemegos]

Should there be a bunch of taboo traits such as "Lecherous", reflecting protectors' fundamental change of motivations?