Social Conflicts

zot · 06-23-2018, 07:22 AM

Hmm...

Why aren't combats simply decided by the GM or by a secret, one-die roll?
Social conflicts are...

The Problem Is...

When your character can't accomplish what you want them to in social setting, it's frustrating. In TFT, your character's success or failure is usually just decided by the GM because it's just pure role playing. If mechanics are wanted or needed, there is only the reaction roll, a one-die roll made by the GM in secret. Combats aren't like this. Maybe social conflicts could be less arbitrary, too.

Social conflict rules don't replace role playing, they come into play only when there is a conflict that the players or the GM care about enough to take it to the dice.

The thing is, the TFT attributes really don't have much to do with social things. There is evidence that educated and well paid women are more likely to suffer abuse. If you think a higher IQ makes you less likely to be conned, be careful: you could be an ideal victim.

Attributes may not have much to do with social things but talents do...

Social Attacks and Enticements

Here is a small (incomplete) list of social / personality attacks and enticements where attributes don't usually have much influence:

fraud or abuse vs. high agreeableness
provocation vs. disagreeableness
threat vs. fearfulness
challenge vs. confidence
violating rules vs. conscientiousness
responsibility vs. low conscientiousness
friendliness vs. extroversion
groups and social functions vs. introversion
opportunities vs. openness
change vs. low openness

If you look at that list, you can probably imagine using some of the approaches in combat: deception, provocation, intimidation, etc. What about severely distracting or even stunning your opponent as you are fighting, just by talking while you fight?

You can also probably imagine using some of these approaches to "fight" with someone socially, maybe to discredit an adversary, to get past a bureaucrat who is preventing you from your goal, or to persuade a magistrate to hear your case.

Should we use 3/IQ for this?

Are smart people hot tempered or slow to anger? Should smarter people be more devious or less devious, more willing or less willing to push boundaries, more suspicious or less suspicious?

It's not really a matter of IQ.

Richer than reaction rolls

What TFT needs for social conflicts is a way to make rolls based on modifiers from talents and circumstances that are not based on attributes. Like reaction rolls, only much richer. Attributes would help in some cases but they shouldn't dominate over talents and circumstances. Once we have rolls like that, we can use them in contests, tasks, etc. to run social conflicts.

What kind of rolls work? There are a lot of options, but here are two:

Opposed rolls work for this -- I have a couple posts and a (heavily rewritten and rewritten) proposal doc for that.

Single rolls work and are arguably more TFT-ish (as David Pulver says). Here's one that works (Skarg advocates 3 dice vs 10):

3 dice vs 10 + modifiers - opponent's modifiers

06-23-2018, 07:22 AM	#1
zot Join Date: May 2018	Social Conflicts Hmm... Why aren't combats simply decided by the GM or by a secret, one-die roll? Social conflicts are... The Problem Is... When your character can't accomplish what you want them to in social setting, it's frustrating. In TFT, your character's success or failure is usually just decided by the GM because it's just pure role playing. If mechanics are wanted or needed, there is only the reaction roll, a one-die roll made by the GM in secret. Combats aren't like this. Maybe social conflicts could be less arbitrary, too. Social conflict rules don't replace role playing, they come into play only when there is a conflict that the players or the GM care about enough to take it to the dice. The thing is, the TFT attributes really don't have much to do with social things. There is evidence that educated and well paid women are more likely to suffer abuse. If you think a higher IQ makes you less likely to be conned, be careful: you could be an ideal victim. Attributes may not have much to do with social things but talents do... Social Attacks and Enticements Here is a small (incomplete) list of social / personality attacks and enticements where attributes don't usually have much influence: fraud or abuse vs. high agreeableness provocation vs. disagreeableness threat vs. fearfulness challenge vs. confidence violating rules vs. conscientiousness responsibility vs. low conscientiousness friendliness vs. extroversion groups and social functions vs. introversion opportunities vs. openness change vs. low openness If you look at that list, you can probably imagine using some of the approaches in combat: deception, provocation, intimidation, etc. What about severely distracting or even stunning your opponent as you are fighting, just by talking while you fight? You can also probably imagine using some of these approaches to "fight" with someone socially, maybe to discredit an adversary, to get past a bureaucrat who is preventing you from your goal, or to persuade a magistrate to hear your case. Should we use 3/IQ for this? Are smart people hot tempered or slow to anger? Should smarter people be more devious or less devious, more willing or less willing to push boundaries, more suspicious or less suspicious? It's not really a matter of IQ. Richer than reaction rolls What TFT needs for social conflicts is a way to make rolls based on modifiers from talents and circumstances that are not based on attributes. Like reaction rolls, only much richer. Attributes would help in some cases but they shouldn't dominate over talents and circumstances. Once we have rolls like that, we can use them in contests, tasks, etc. to run social conflicts. What kind of rolls work? There are a lot of options, but here are two: Opposed rolls work for this -- I have a couple posts and a (heavily rewritten and rewritten) proposal doc for that. Single rolls work and are arguably more TFT-ish (as David Pulver says). Here's one that works (Skarg advocates 3 dice vs 10): 3 dice vs 10 + modifiers - opponent's modifiers