GURPS monsters/NPCs in D&D

[2097]

One way to use GURPS sourcebooks, worldbooks, bestiaries and adventures is with other game systems. It's supposed to be universal after all.

Here is one way to use those books for D&D. For OSR style D&D (like Stars Without Number) and for 5e. (The crunchier games like 3e, 4e and PF1 need their own method.)

Saves, and general abilities:
ST-> Str
IQ -> Int, Wis
DX -> Dex
HT -> Con, Cha

HP: take HT straight up. Some books, like the original Creatures of the Night, have two numbers, use the biggest number.

AC: If they have an armor that the D&D version you are using (I have the armor list glued to the inside of DM screen) use it, otherwise, for ascending use DX+PD. (For 5e, if that number ends up higher than 22, just put 22.) For descending, subtract from 20. (For ACKS, subtract 10.)

Attacks: take the combat skill and subtract ten. That's the tohit bonus.

XP: for 5e you can use the tables in the DMG but let's say most normal GURPS humans converted this way are 25 xp.

Philosophy: I want stats because I want to have some committed numbers. Trying to be get the exact same outcomes as you would in GURPS is not possible anyway. Like if I prep a dungeon and I jot down like ANY stats, that's fine. (And calculate the right XP for it.) That's what's there. The interesting part of the session isn't the game balance. If the players shoot the baron of Harkness, the interesting part isn't whether they can, it's the consequences and fallout.

Also, also, when converting monsters or NPCs, another way to do it is to instead use the stats from a similar monster or NPC for the edition you're using. There are plenty of dog- or wolf-like creatures to use for stats for the Brackish Hounds from CotN for example, or in 5e you could use the Noble statblock for the nobles of Harkness.

[Dalillama]

[QUOTE=2097;2180518]
Here is one way to use those books for D&D. For OSR style D&D (like Stars Without Number) and for 5e. (The crunchier games like 3e, 4e and PF1 need their own method.)

Saves, and general abilities:
ST-> Str
IQ -> Int, Wis
DX -> Dex
HT -> Con, Cha

This... doesn't really work.

HP: take HT straight up. Some books, like the original Creatures of the Night, have two numbers, use the biggest number.

This doesn't work at all; they'd have ridiculously low HP for their intended threat levels.

AC: If they have an armor that the D&D version you are using (I have the armor list glued to the inside of DM screen) use it, otherwise, for ascending use DX+PD. (For 5e, if that number ends up higher than 22, just put 22.) For descending, subtract from 20. (For ACKS, subtract 10.)

GURPS 4e doesn't use PD. Also, I'm not familiar with 5e, but that'll give you really wonky AC values for any older stuff, or things based on it.

Attacks: take the combat skill and subtract ten. That's the tohit bonus.

This is the closest to a usable conversion here.

Also, also, when converting monsters or NPCs, another way to do it is to instead use the stats from a similar monster or NPC for the edition you're using. There are plenty of dog- or wolf-like creatures to use for stats for the Brackish Hounds from CotN for example, or in 5e you could use the Noble statblock for the nobles of Harkness.

This is a much better plan; add special abilities to the template based on whatever powers they have in GURPS

[2097]

Thank you for replying so quickly!

The stats… the first couple of NPCs I looked at had their stats so close to 10 so I thought at first I’d, instead of the normal 5e way of getting the ability mod by subtracting 10 and halving, I would just subtract 10 straight up. So a DX of 13 would mean a Dex mod of +3. But then I saw some more NPCs with a wider spread, so I thought I’ll just move the score over straight up. That also works better with B/X and derived games like SWN, Lab Lord etc.

If by “don’t work” you mean that HT isn’t really equivalent to Cha etc? Sure. But to just quickly grab numbers somewhere. If you see them have Strong Will or Low Perception etc, adjust accordingly.♥

But I think you’re right, for 5e it’s better to “do the subtract 10 for the mod” thing. Even with the wider spread. B/X doesn’t really care about the scores in the same way.

The threat level… yeah, they become very squishy with so low HP (although some creatures in CotN have hundreds of HP) but the threat level and XP is set accordingly. I didn’t really see these NPCs as necessarily combat challenges, but someone you might struggle with socially (like a ruler of a realm), or in contests of skill such as jousting or hacking, or dependents that you might have to protect against monsters or agents.

That said, I also have this for scaling up NPCs to higher level (higher class level, not directly corresponding to threat level). (It’s my policy to do this before play starts but that can be a quick note, like “add Warrior level 5”, “add Rogue level 12” or whatever.) Usually in our own D&D so far, fighting other people isn’t the problem, fighting monsters are, or fighting hordes of people, are. In 5e it’ll just say “the innkeep is a Commoner” and you can then look up the commoner stat block. Whereas in GURPS the innkeep in Harkness has stats. That are about equivalent to a 2HD, 25xp Guard.

The AC… you’re right. That part of the conversion wasn’t good at all. I think the best thing to do is to just have the armor list for your setting available. In 5e, light armor lets you add your dex bonus.

Adding abilities to existing D&D monsters… that’s awesome! I’ve done that. Once I used “gargoyle” stats for the Chillers from CotN but with some of the gargoyle abilities removed and chiller stats added. I didn’t get to see how it worked in play because the PCs never fought them. (Instead they disguised themselves as their rivals from theatre school to discredit them with the village elders. It was an awesome session. The Chillers problem was never addressed. Sandbox ftw.) And obv with the Brackish Hound I added their bleeding ability etc.

[2097]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

Also, I'm not familiar with 5e, but that'll give you really wonky AC values for any older stuff, or things based on it.

In 5e, to-hit bonuses scale more slowly than in 3e and 4e. A little slower than fighters in the old basic Rules Cyclopedia but faster than the other classes there.

Also in 5e high AC is harder to hit and low is easier, unlike the RC. But that's just a straight forward number's flip

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by 2097

One way to use GURPS sourcebooks, worldbooks, bestiaries and adventures is with other game systems. It's supposed to be universal after all.

The universal in the name refers to GURPS's ability to run games in any genre, not that its rules can be converted to any other game system.

Here is one way to use those books for D&D. For OSR style D&D (like Stars Without Number) and for 5e. (The crunchier games like 3e, 4e and PF1 need their own method.)

I'm mostly familiar with the older style D&D, so I'll focus on that.

Saves, and general abilities:
ST-> Str
IQ -> Int, Wis
DX -> Dex
HT -> Con, Cha

It's not that simple. GURPS Strength, Intelligence, and Dexterity pretty much equal the D&D abilities of the same name, and GURPS Health is approximately the same thing as D&D Constitution (but you'll want to include advantages and disadvantages like Fit/Very Fit, Hard (Easy) to Subdue), but D&D Charisma is a combination of all the different areas of GURPS that give you bonuses or penalties to reaction rolls, like the Charisma advantage, physical appearance, Status, Rank, Odious Personal Habits, Voice, influence skills, and everything else that adjusts reaction rolls. D&D Wisdom is a combination of GURPS Common Sense, Will, and other abilities of mental fortitude.

HP: take HT straight up. Some books, like the original Creatures of the Night, have two numbers, use the biggest number.

No way. D&D Hit Points are far more abstract than GURPS Hit Points, which are purely a measure of structural integrity. D&D Hit Points are a combination of GURPS Hit Points, Easy/Hard to Kill, Luck and variations thereof, Combat Reflexes, and so on.

AC: If they have an armor that the D&D version you are using (I have the armor list glued to the inside of DM screen) use it, otherwise, for ascending use DX+PD. (For 5e, if that number ends up higher than 22, just put 22.) For descending, subtract from 20. (For ACKS, subtract 10.)

There is no mathematical relationship between defensive ability in GURPS and D&D. Simply use the D&D Armor Class of the given armor, regardless of what its GURPS statistics are.

Attacks: take the combat skill and subtract ten. That's the tohit bonus.

No way! D&D attacks use a linear probability; GURPS skills use a bell curve and a huge host of modifiers. The best you can do is approximate. An Orc in the original D&D rules, for instance, is a 1 HD creature that fights about as well as a Veteran, who is an ordinary soldier that has seen war. Such a soldier in GURPS would have fighting skills of about 14. So there you have an approximation of the conversion of the fighting skills of an orc. Do similar things for other monsters.

XP: for 5e you can use the tables in the DMG but let's say most normal GURPS humans converted this way are 25 xp.

Don't convert between D&D Experience Points and GURPS Character Points. Simply eyeball GURPS "power level" (p. B487) to D&D levels. GURPS Dungeon Fantasy starting characters of 250 points are like 5th level or so D&D characters (at least, the older forms of D&D).

Ultimately, the way to convert between GURPS and another system is to rely on GURPS's plain-language bias. If something is concrete, like equipment, just switch to the other system's stats. If something is game-mechanical, convert using the IDEAS of what it represents, rather than using the numbers.

[2097]

Lots of great answers already! Much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

The universal in the name refers to GURPS's ability to run games in any genre, not that its rules can be converted to any other game system.

Oh you're right! Re-reading the intro to the Basic Set (3e) now.

I also find this on page B6:

Originally Posted by Basic Set 3e, page B6

But GURPS is designed to be as compatible as possible with supplements written for different games. The reason? Simple. Suppose that you’re a GURPS player. You’re at the hobby shop, and you see a really interesting supplement package. But it’s by another publisher, for another game.

So what?

The GURPS system breaks everything down into plain English and simple num- bers. Distances are given in feet and miles, rather than arbitrary units; times are given in minutes and seconds. That’s what makes it generic. That also makes it easy to translate. If you see an interesting supplement for another game, go right ahead and get it. You can use it as a sourcebook for GURPS.

Likewise, if you really insist on playing another game once in a while (sigh) . . . you can still use your GURPS adventures. As long as that other game uses units that you can translate into feet, minutes and other plain-English terms, you can use your GURPS adventures in that system.

To be honest, we hope GURPS will become the “standard” roleplaying system. But we don’t expect to do that by driving everyone else out of the market, or even by forcing them to conform to us. Instead, we are conforming to them – by producing a system that will work with any clearly-written adventure.

And I have lots of cool GURPS books that I want to mix and match with D&D books♥

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

I'm mostly familiar with the older style D&D, so I'll focus on that.

That's fine. I've played lots of B/X, some 1e, and most of all 5e. And this is for them. Whereas D&D 3e, D&D 4e and PF1 need their own guide.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

It's not that simple. GURPS Strength, Intelligence, and Dexterity pretty much equal the D&D abilities of the same name, and GURPS Health is approximately the same thing as D&D Constitution (but you'll want to include advantages and disadvantages like Fit/Very Fit, Hard (Easy) to Subdue), but D&D Charisma is a combination of all the different areas of GURPS that give you bonuses or penalties to reaction rolls, like the Charisma advantage, physical appearance, Status, Rank, Odious Personal Habits, Voice, influence skills, and everything else that adjusts reaction rolls. D&D Wisdom is a combination of GURPS Common Sense, Will, and other abilities of mental fortitude.

Right so I'm thinking... these aren't for converting full PCs. It's for finding out just the numbers that are needed in particular situation. I need to make a Perception roll for an NPC (which would be Wis in 5e), IQ is a good place to start if they don't have higher or lover Perception.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

No way. D&D Hit Points are far more abstract than GURPS Hit Points, which are purely a measure of structural integrity. D&D Hit Points are a combination of GURPS Hit Points, Easy/Hard to Kill, Luck and variations thereof, Combat Reflexes, and so on.

And fatigue points too, I guess. Also GURPS Hit points go into the negatives. There are lots of differences.

But. Lots of normal professional humans have around 2d8 HP in 5e. Which makes HT a nice match for it. And since HP in 5e is buffed by con, and HT is con, it's also a good match.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

There is no mathematical relationship between defensive ability in GURPS and D&D. Simply use the D&D Armor Class of the given armor, regardless of what its GURPS statistics are.

Yeah, I guess that's the best way to do it.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

No way! D&D attacks use a linear probability; GURPS skills use a bell curve and a huge host of modifiers.

Well, the idea is that a GURPS 15 Axe/Mace is better at hitting than a GURPS 14 Axe/Mace, right? And both are better than a GURPS 11 Axe/Mace?

So even if the outcomes don't match up at all between the two games, various NPCs can be relatively good compared to each other.

If I wanted to port them over exactly, I could use 3d6 to hit for them etc. But that's not necessary, I just want some rough numbers committed before play starts that this innkeep has these stats, this librarian has these stats etc.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

The best you can do is approximate. An Orc in the original D&D rules, for instance, is a 1 HD creature that fights about as well as a Veteran, who is an ordinary soldier that has seen war. Such a soldier in GURPS would have fighting skills of about 14. So there you have an approximation of the conversion of the fighting skills of an orc. Do similar things for other monsters.

Yeah, this is the best way if/when you can. Especially for combat monsters!

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Don't convert between D&D Experience Points and GURPS Character Points. Simply eyeball GURPS "power level" (p. B487) to D&D levels. GURPS Dungeon Fantasy starting characters of 250 points are like 5th level or so D&D characters (at least, the older forms of D&D).

Oh I need to clarify that I definitely wasn't translating character points to XP! I was just saying that all the "normal humans" I had converted so far looked to be around 25 xp because they have one attack each, with damage at 15 or lower, and around 10 or so HP. That wasn't related to GURPS Character Points at all.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Ultimately, the way to convert between GURPS and another system is to rely on GURPS's plain-language bias. If something is concrete, like equipment, just switch to the other system's stats. If something is game-mechanical, convert using the IDEAS of what it represents, rather than using the numbers.

Yes, that's the best. I was probably off base with my orig idea of adding PD to DX. Those numbers look good to me, but... if there is a clearly described armor listed, then that's easy to convert to D&D.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by 2097

Right so I'm thinking... these aren't for converting full PCs. It's for finding out just the numbers that are needed in particular situation.

Let's try some concrete examples. You're familiar with B/X D&D, so I'll use that.

Example 1
Let's suppose I want to translate the GURPS basilisk (fourth edition p. B460) into D&D. Easy peasy! D&D stats for a basilisk are on D&D page X28. Done!

Most generic GURPS fantasy monsters already exist in D&D. Who cares if they're not exact matches?

Example 2
Okay, you want a real conversion. Let's find a GURPS monster that doesn't have a B/X D&D equivalent. Let's try the strider from GURPS Banestorm. It's a 10-foot tall flightless bird that runs really fast and has Reach 2 claws and a sharp beak. As a D&D monster, we don't need to know its ability scores, but we need to know its effectiveness in combat.

It's obviously got a claw/claw/bite routine. Its claws in GURPS do 2d-2 cut; its beak does 2d-2 pi+. There's no direct GURPS-to-D&D conversion for damage, but I'd guesstimate about 2–12/2–12/2–8 or thereabouts.

It doesn't want to fight, and will only do so when cornered. Its DX is 15, and that's its attack skill, a 95.4% chance to hit, neglecting the target's ability to defend. On a d20, that's about equal to needing a 2 or greater. Versus AC 9, with a +2 to hit, 2 or greater is achieved when the monster has 6+ to 7 hit dice. Since the strider has 20 GURPS Hit Points, let's go to the top of that range and say it has 7 HD. Therefore, a D&D strider will have 7–56 hit points.

The GURPS strider has Ground Move 18. Most normal humans have a Move no more than 6, 7 if you're really good. The D&D strider will have to move very fast, say 240' (80'). Make it faster if you like.

Saving throws are based on the class its abilities most resemble, which here is fighter. Unintelligent animals (GURPS IQ 3) save as half their monster level, rounded up. The D&D strider, therefore, saves as Fighter:4

Armor class is tricky. The GURPS strider has Dodge 11 which is pretty good, but not inconceivable, and it doesn't have any other defenses and no DR. I'd put it halfway down the AC chart, say AC 4. Just a guess.

As an IQ 3 omnivore, it's not interested in the cosmic struggle. It's Neutral. I have no idea how many appear. Look up ostrich flocks and make it similar.

Morale? They prefer to run away. Make it low. Say, 4. Not so low (2) that it won't fight, but it probably won't.

And there you have it. A D&D monster from a GURPS creature.

Strider
Armor Class: 4
Hit Dice: 7
Save As: Fighter 4
Move: 240' (80')
Morale: 4
Attacks: claw/claw/bite
Damage: 2–12/2–12/2–8
Treasure: Nil
Alignment: Neutral

Can attack in melee from ten feet away. Omnivorous. Thrives in badlands and dry plains. Can be domesticated, but they don't make reliable mounts, and they may attack their handler if not controlled carefully. Their eggs are over a foot in diameter and contain several gallons of fluid.

[Maz]

You can't simply take stats from D&D and convert to GURPS nor can you go the other way. It won't give the results your after anyway.

As others have said. you have to take the feel of the creature/NPC you have and convert the feel of them.

---

But just for the sake of fun, if you really, really wanted to convert stats from GURPS to D&D I would go with:

GURPS Stats -> D&D Stat
ST -> Str score
DX-10 -> Dex modifier.
HT-10 -> Con modifier (+1 for Fit, +2 for Very Fit).
IQ-10 -> Int modifier.
(Will-10 + Per-10)/2 -> Wis modifier.
(IQ-10)/2 + Each level of Appearance, Voice, Charisma, Smooth operator talent -> Cha modifier.]


AC, is based on equipment and stats. Not GURPS attributes.


GURPS Talents should pass over as Skill-Feats.
D&D Skills are based on class and race and can never match GURPS anyway. But as an NPC guideline. Any skill you have 4-8 pts in should be "trained".

As for a GURPS characters level. Kromm has once said "25 cp per lvl if you only focus on combat abilities". 50 cp per level if you include socio-economic traits such as wealth, allies, reputation and so on.

[Maz]

Lets try Dai Blackthorne from Basic p.310.
I am going to ignore his "Warp" ability as thats impossible to probably translate to D&D.


Level: 4 Rogue.

Str: 8
Dex: 20
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 17
Cha: 12

Trained in: Stealth, Acrobatics, Athletics, Sleight of Hand, Thieves Tools.
Feats: Alert. (Its possible there is a feat in another 5e book to represent his Perfect Balance, but I only have the core book, instead I game him training in Acrobatics)

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Maz

Lets try Dai Blackthorne from Basic p.310.
I am going to ignore his "Warp" ability as thats impossible to probably translate to D&D.

Eladrin in 4e teleport 25' per turn as a regular move action - their movement is 6 (walking) or 5 (teleporting). D&D4e has teleport spells, and I think at least some monsters have a Reaction that lets them blink out of the way of attacks. I don't know 5e very well but I bet that kind of stuff has been kept.