Stealth question, sneaking up on someone unaware.

[Boge]

Stealth reads: "If someone is specifically on the alert for intruders, the GM will roll a Quick Contest between your Stealth and the sentinel’s Perception."

Note the italics. If they're not on alert, how is this supposed to play out?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Boge

Stealth reads: "If someone is specifically on the alert for intruders, the GM will roll a Quick Contest between your Stealth and the sentinel’s Perception."

Note the italics. If they're not on alert, how is this supposed to play out?

How it's supposed to play out is "If you make a stealth roll (with appropriate TDMs), you are not noticed. If you fail a stealth roll, then they make a perception roll to notice. If you fumble a stealth roll, you always get noticed."

[Mr_Sandman]

The paragraph before that says that "A successful roll lets you... move so quietly that no one will hear you." It sounds to me, that if the person you're sneaking up on isn't on alert, it's just a skill roll on stealth, not a contest.

[Boge]

That's what I figured, but our GM always just rolls the contest anyway. So I end up having to have Stealth of 18+ to ever succeed, especially when there are multiple people I'm sneaking around. It bothers me.

And if we're ever trying to stealth as a group, forget it. One of those rolls will be bad, making us fail, or one of theirs will be good, making us fail.

[trooper6]

I would say that how your GM runs things is how your GM runs things. Your GM may imagine that all the NPCs are always alert. I may not do it that way, but your GM does and that is a thing you have to deal with. How do you deal with it? You could make your case to your GM for them to change the way they do things...but maybe your GM won't go for it. And if that is the case, maybe you find a different GM.

I played briefly with a GM whose idea of "realistic" was very different than my own. I made a character as per his specifications (all the players did) and then our party wasn't even able to get on the plane to fly to the starting location for the mission because his "realistic" skill levels in adventuring situations resulted in failures every time.

So...we didn't even start the mission. We were thwarted at the airport. He didn't want to change his idea of what realistic was, so we stopped playing with him. I hope he found a group of players that matched his idea of what realistic meant. Because we were a mismatch. I don't think he should have run differently, he just wasn't compatible with the group of players that we were and vice versa.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Boge

That's what I figured, but our GM always just rolls the contest anyway.

Which is fine as long as the enemy also always has to do a Quick Contest and the enemy is sneaking up on your characters about as often as you are sneaking up on them.

[Anaraxes]

As a last resort, you might redesign the PCs to avoid any stealth-related concepts. As long as being sneaky doesn't work in that game world, no one would develop those sorts of specialties and tactics.

[starslayer]

I think I might put in a nod to your GM here.

In most situations where you would want to sneak up on someone they are looking out for people sneaking up on them.

1. Sneaking up on someone in a dark, dimly lit, lonely, or where there is a lot of cover: People intrinsically fear places and situations like this, and go 'on alert'.

2. Anyone who's job position is 'guard', 'sentry' or 'lookout'- there job is to be on alert and look for people, they might be distracted because nothing happens, or they are bored- but they are at least notionally 'on alert'.

Ultimately your stealth has to be pretty high to find situations where neither 1 or 2 is true and still be able to succeed in a stealth roll once all the negative modifiers are applied to you (Well lit, minimal cover, familiar situation for the person you are trying to sneak past).

Not sure if you want to go down this rabbit hole; but it might be useful to list situations where you've thought an unopposed stealth roll would have been appropriate but was not?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by starslayer

2. Anyone who's job position is 'guard', 'sentry' or 'lookout'- there job is to be on alert and look for people, they might be distracted because nothing happens, or they are bored- but they are at least notionally 'on alert'.

There is a vast different between 'notionally on alert' and being alert. Most guard duty is boring and involves looking in fairly specific directions (even when patrolling*). So if one is sneaking up from a different direction...

However yeah, if you have to sneak through a specific area that has guards watching that specific area, and said guards aren't entirely derelict in their duty, then it should be Quick Contest (with the guards at some penalty if they are bored and think they're safe).



* There are pretty much two types of patrols. Alert patrols and safe patrols, alert patrols are one done when under "Alert" conditions (alarms have sounded, you just got on duty and are fresh, it's dangerous, etc). "Safe" conditions are when patrolling the same ground in 'home' territory, where it is safe. Guards that think they are safe (even in very high security areas) will let their guard down and relax as it's virtually impossible to remain on alert at all times when you are actually safe.

[GodBeastX]

This thread really got me thinking about stealth and how there is probably a better way to do it than this simple contest... hmmm... Something more strategic.