What's the point of dual wielding?

[InfinitePudding]

With Extra attack working the way it does in this game, why would you need to wield more than one weapon? Ambidexterity seems like wasted points to me an a dual attack seems like a silly 4 point penalty for someone like the Swashbuckler who gets rapid strike for just 3 points. The only upside I can see to a dual attack over a rapid strike is that it gives a defense penalty to the target if both attacks are on that target.

I guess that's more economical than spending a further 2 points with deceptive attack. But it's just a one point difference. What's the point?

[Colarmel]

Multiple parries is one huge benefit.

Additionally, ambidexterity allows you to draw and sling a knife at full skill without sacrificing the primary weapon.

[Colarmel]

Oh also, a Swashbuckler, frex, gets attacked twice in a round by giant spiders.

First time, he retreats, parries with an edged rapier, does damage.

Second time, retreat isn't an option, he's limited to dodge without a C weapon. Dodge can't result in damage for his spider attacker, and is less likely to succeed than a Parry anyway. The dual wielding swashbuckler uses a long knife instead , gets to Parry, gets to do damage, if he took Weapon Master (25) he does significant damage.

[tbone]

I think How to Be a GURPS GM has a big overview of dual wielding vs Rapid Strike vs whatever else is out there.

[InfinitePudding]

Thanks guys, I actually own how to be a GURPS GM and haven't gotten to that part yet. :) And thanks for the examples Collarmel. I knew there had to be some really good reason to use it that I wasn't aware of.

[Anthony]

If you don't have weapon mastery, using two weapons:

1. Changes multiple parry penalties from -0/-4/-8/etc to -0/-2/-4/-6/etc.
2. Allows making what is effectively rapid strike plus deceptive attack 1 at a penalty of -4/-8 instead of -8/-8
3. If you have ambidexterity, the parry penalties become -0/-0/-4/-4/etc, and the attack penalty becomes -4/-4.

This is competitive in value with the benefits of a cloak or small shield; a medium shield will usually be superior but is much heavier. If you do have weapon master, I can't see a good reason to dual wield, it should probably reduce DWA penalties the same way it reduces rapid strike penalties.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Colarmel

Multiple parries is one huge benefit.

This is the #1 reason cited by my players (can't speak for others!). Nobody uses two weapons unless they have already rid themselves of the -4 for the off hand via Ambidexterity, using a Main-Gauche to defend, or possessing other special abilities. So in effect, their basic parry penalties are 0/0/-4/-4/-8/-8 and so on instead of 0/-4/-8/-12/-16/-20 and so on. This is especially true at high power levels where having a block and +2 to active defenses from a medium shield isn't making a big difference – perhaps because you have skill 24, Combat Reflexes, Enhanced Parry 3, and Weapon Master, and your parries are 19/19/17/17 etc.

Originally Posted by lachimba

"I've got two magic swords"
"I want a crushing weapon and a cutting weapon"
"I've got poison on one weapon and don't want to waste it on one set of attacks"

Which can be summed up as: "I want all the benefits of two different but equally useful weapons at the same time." This is the #2 reason I hear. Again at high power levels, where overpowered items start to show up, it can be very attractive to wield OP Weapon #1 (say, one that gives ST and DX bonuses while wielded) and OP Weapon #2 (say, one that's very fine, armor-piercing in some way, and permanently poisoned) at the same time.

Originally Posted by lachimba

"I have a weapon that can't be used to attack and parry on the same turn"

And this is #3. It's often really a variant on #2, because as a rule, the weapon that can't be used to attack and parry on the same turn is valuable for its massive damage. But for sure there's something to be said for "Haha, I have ST plus Striking ST of 26, so I can totally wield this normally two-handed flail in one hand for 5d+4 crushing at reach 2, never becoming unready, and penalizing enemy defenses . . . and still keep this handy sword in the other hand for parrying or just whacking people who get too close for the flail."

[Kromm]

The combat mode that's hardest to make effective isn't one-handed weapon/shield, one-handed weapon/one-handed weapon, or two-handed weapon – it's wielding a single one-handed weapon and leaving the other hand empty. There are ways to make this somewhat useful if you're a martial artist with Judo and, say, a jitte, nunchaku, or jo, but it isn't optimal for most delvers.

[ArchonShiva]

In addition to all these perfectly valid reasons, remember that not everyone has Weapon Master: A Deceptive Rapid Strike is -8/-8 without it!

Weapon Master is a more cost-effective if you have it for a single weapon, often making Deceptive Rapid Strike at -5/-5 and +2 DB from shield the superior combination for those characters.

Dual-Weapon Attack is the lower-cost option, at least in terms of cp: you save [20+] on Weapon Master and [4] on weapon skill, while spending [1] for off-hand training.

If we’re talking two weapons using skills without good cross-defaults, high-DX characters with skills at DX+1 can dual-wield just fine; knights with skills at DX+5 are loathe to invest in two!

Favorite combo: Edged Rapier and Dwarven Morningstar!

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Kromm

The combat mode that's hardest to make effective isn't one-handed weapon/shield, one-handed weapon/one-handed weapon, or two-handed weapon – it's wielding a single one-handed weapon and leaving the other hand empty.

The realistic reason for this stance is that the stance required to use two weapons is either balanced or places your parrying weapon in the forward hand, while a single sword is used in your forward hand. This has a fairly significant effect on reach, though it's mostly below the resolution of GURPS.