[Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152

vicky_molokh · 10-30-2017, 06:05 AM

Greetings, all!

A few times, I ran into disagreements on what is and isn't plausibly achievable by TL9 biotech in terms of reducing the need for sleep (including the existing write-ups). The elephant in the room is Modafinil, a cheap TL8 drug with effects that are in many ways superior to what TL9 can offer. Bringing it up sometimes turns the disagreement into that about the properties of the TL8 thing, especially the write-up of side-effects in the official text.

Now, the real-life statements about the real thing seem to be somewhat contradictory and second-hand. At this point, what I'm looking for is scientifically grounded opinions on the matter, as opposed to vague musings about the mysteriousness of the sleep process. That doesn't mean that non-pharmacists are unwelcome in this thread, but please do your best to back up arguments for either retaining or changing the text (as a houserule, since I haven't heard of Bio-Tech receiving a revised edition any time soon) with a scientific basis - either that of your own knowledge in the field, or of reliable and verifiable studies.

Thanks in advance!

Fred Brackin · 10-30-2017, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

. That doesn't mean that non-pharmacists are unwelcome in this thread, but please do your best to back up arguments for either retaining or changing the text (as a houserule, since I haven't heard of Bio-Tech receiving a revised edition any time soon) with a scientific basis - either that of your own knowledge in the field, or of reliable and verifiable studies.

Thanks in advance!

Not a pharmacist of course and you probably wouldn't somebody who dispenses stuff at the local store anyway. I'm afraid you might be looking for an actual pharmacological researcher and I remember no Gurpser with such credentials.

I did slog my way through the Wikipedia page last time this came up and I'm not sure Modafinil actually does as much as Bio-Tech claims. The story there was that it did no more than amphetamines or possibly even caffeine but perhaps had fewer side effects.

There were some vague and not well supported claims of its' benefits as an intelligence enhancer.

Flyndaran · 10-30-2017, 01:51 PM

That Wikipedia page is sparse as heck. It just seems that people are paranoid about risks that no one has proved even exist. Some are allergic, and a very few develop addiction just like literally every drug on earth. It's even less toxic per mg than theobromine in chocolate.

sir_pudding · 10-30-2017, 01:56 PM

Not a pharmacological researcher but I have taken it. It works. There was an Air Force study that showed that long term fatigue is still a problem IIRC.

Anthony · 10-30-2017, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Not a pharmacological researcher but I have taken it. It works. There was an Air Force study that showed that long term fatigue is still a problem IIRC.

In which case it's most likely Resistant to the penalties from lost sleep, rather than actually reducing the need for sleep.

vicky_molokh · 10-30-2017, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

In which case it's most likely Resistant to the penalties from lost sleep, rather than actually reducing the need for sleep.

How do you even apply Resistant to those? The primary effects of lost sleep are applied without a right to resist them.

Anthony · 10-30-2017, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

How do you even apply Resistant to those? The primary effects of lost sleep are applied without a right to resist them.

You can resist falling asleep, though the drowsy condition is applied regardless. It could also be a transient increase in fatigue (which would prevent needing to roll).

sir_pudding · 10-30-2017, 02:45 PM

You don't feel tired (or especially wired either) so the penalties from drowsy aren't appropriate. I think the existing game mechanics are mostly adequate. If using Last Gasp, you might not allow recovery of long term fatigue without sleep.

It looks like most of the other studies of long-term use are for treatment of narcolepsy and related disorders and therefore include normal periods of sleep.

Anthony · 10-30-2017, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

You don't feel tired (or especially wired either) so the penalties from drowsy aren't appropriate.

Probably just cancel out N lost fatigue, then.

~~evileeyore~~ · 10-30-2017, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Not a pharmacological researcher but I have taken it. It works. There was an Air Force study that showed that long term fatigue is still a problem IIRC.

Did you use it to help with skipping sleep for prolonged periods* or just to enhance wakefulness during periods with radically reduced sleep?

* Exceeding more than one or two days.

10-30-2017, 06:05 AM	#1
vicky_molokh GURPS FAQ Keeper Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kyïv, Ukraine	[Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152 Greetings, all! A few times, I ran into disagreements on what is and isn't plausibly achievable by TL9 biotech in terms of reducing the need for sleep (including the existing write-ups). The elephant in the room is Modafinil, a cheap TL8 drug with effects that are in many ways superior to what TL9 can offer. Bringing it up sometimes turns the disagreement into that about the properties of the TL8 thing, especially the write-up of side-effects in the official text. Now, the real-life statements about the real thing seem to be somewhat contradictory and second-hand. At this point, what I'm looking for is scientifically grounded opinions on the matter, as opposed to vague musings about the mysteriousness of the sleep process. That doesn't mean that non-pharmacists are unwelcome in this thread, but please do your best to back up arguments for either retaining or changing the text (as a houserule, since I haven't heard of Bio-Tech receiving a revised edition any time soon) with a scientific basis - either that of your own knowledge in the field, or of reliable and verifiable studies. Thanks in advance! __________________ Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper

10-30-2017, 01:51 PM	#3
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152 That Wikipedia page is sparse as heck. It just seems that people are paranoid about risks that no one has proved even exist. Some are allergic, and a very few develop addiction just like literally every drug on earth. It's even less toxic per mg than theobromine in chocolate. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

10-30-2017, 01:56 PM	#4
sir_pudding Wielder of Smart Pants Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ventura CA	Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152 Not a pharmacological researcher but I have taken it. It works. There was an Air Force study that showed that long term fatigue is still a problem IIRC.

10-30-2017, 02:45 PM	#8
sir_pudding Wielder of Smart Pants Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ventura CA	Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152 You don't feel tired (or especially wired either) so the penalties from drowsy aren't appropriate. I think the existing game mechanics are mostly adequate. If using Last Gasp, you might not allow recovery of long term fatigue without sleep. It looks like most of the other studies of long-term use are for treatment of narcolepsy and related disorders and therefore include normal periods of sleep. Last edited by sir_pudding; 10-30-2017 at 02:53 PM.