Alternative Psionics

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Eddie T

I'm seeking feedback on alternative ways to model psionics away from the Advantage -> Talent -> Skill framework. Making the characters, I ran into exactly what David Pulver mentioned in Pyramid 3-29 with underpowered psionics in other chargen aspects.

An alternative approach is to concentrate on using psionics for things that tech can't do, or can't do conveniently. Mind reading, rapid healing, things like that. Don't try to compete with technological guns or armour using psionics, because that's way too expensive.

[ericthered]

Yeah, talents just boost skill. The advantages are the real buy in.

The main trick with dropping the advantage part and just requiring talent and skill is that characters will always go for the absolutely highest possible level of the advantage. And most of the time there is a big difference. If you can solve that, I think it will work out fine.

One way to handle that is to declare all people have a given psionic power at the same level. This makes the ability yet more tech-like, as all telepaths have work at about the same range. You can set this to be at whatever level you like.

Another way is to say to tie the ability to the level of talent you have: perhaps 1 level of talent lets you have 20 points worth of abilities, or all abilities in your power under 10 points. Or you can do a decent amount of work to set all psis with the same talent to have the same limit on what they can use.

The above methods all basically give free points, from a classic gurps perspective. If its necessary to get your genre to work, then that's what it takes. Additionally, realize you'll want to give some kinds of ability more love in an ultra-tech setting, particularly physical defenses and TK.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Eddie T

Hey all, I'm beginning a new campaign tonight that is essentially High-Tech/Ultra-Tech with Psionics (maybe the occasional mage for shock factor).

I'm seeking feedback on alternative ways to model psionics away from the Advantage -> Talent -> Skill framework. Making the characters, I ran into exactly what David Pulver mentioned in Pyramid 3-29 with underpowered psionics in other chargen aspects. I think I might discuss David's method of using spells as psionics with my group tonight.

Has anyone tried simply removing the Talent step out of Psionics? If so, did it seriously break the Psionic characters in relation to the mundanes? Just looking at it ledger-wise, that seems to give a psychic back a lot of points.

I'm curious as to any other alternatives or ways that you all have adapted the rules at your tables. I said on another GURPS discussion list I'm on, I've owned GURPS 4e since 2005ish, but life has repetitively conspired to prevent me from being able to play and use it until recently. Now I'm trying to relearn the little I knew and at the same time work my way through the multitude of other information that the game has accumulated since my first forays.

I appreciate any ideas!

The psi talents are only five points. If you have so much as two psibiities, it's cheaper to have the talent.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The psi talents are only five points. If you have so much as two psibiities, it's cheaper to have the talent.

Only if you assume a 100-point base cost for the advantage. Most psi advantages cost way less than that.

[Christopher R. Rice]

I created a psi system that used Realm Magic as a its base. It's type of psionic power was a given "realm." I had six tiers total. Worked quite well. I had a single controlling VH skill for each power. It worked pretty decently.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I created a psi system that used Realm Magic as a its base. It's type of psionic power was a given "realm." I had six tiers total. Worked quite well. I had a single controlling VH skill for each power. It worked pretty decently.

Would that mean that ESP was spread across several or all Realms, since 'Sense' (Detection and Measurement) is the first thing you learn to do with a Realm?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Would that mean that ESP was spread across several or all Realms, since 'Sense' (Detection and Measurement) is the first thing you learn to do with a Realm?

Just Telekinesis for a remote sense of touch right? I mean Telepathy and Ergokinesis already have sensory elements. Oh wait, Teleportation. That would be awkward since it would automatically mean you could sense your destination at a distance.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Would that mean that ESP was spread across several or all Realms, since 'Sense' (Detection and Measurement) is the first thing you learn to do with a Realm?

I'd have to check my notes, but for most it functioned as a "I can detect uses of my power vaguely" and then more precision at 3 or 4. For some powers (like TK), it instead worked as a kind of "remote sense of touch."

[Kallatari]

Originally Posted by Eddie T

I'm seeking feedback on alternative ways to model psionics away from the Advantage -> Talent -> Skill framework. Making the characters, I ran into exactly what David Pulver mentioned in Pyramid 3-29 with underpowered psionics in other chargen aspects. I think I might discuss David's method of using spells as psionics with my group tonight.

If I understand your problem, you're saying the Psionic abilities as a power framework is too expensive, costing to many character points to first buy the ability, and then the skill. Your first suggestion was to use "spells as psionics" where you change the power framework into a skill-based approach. This would reduce the cost of learning psionics, and thus allow a psi character to have many abilities.

I'd suggest a possible variation. Use the GURPS Psionic Powers book to define how your psi abilities work, but give the abilities (i.e., advantages) for free. If they learn the psionic skill, then they can use the ability. Basically, it's like a skill-based magic system, except you're using the psionic abilities to define how they work. The abilities will therefore certainly have more of a psionic feel to them.

The one item you'd have to work out is how to differentiate the levels for some psionic abilities. With the "magic as spells", levels of power are defined by the amount of Energy you have to provide to power the spell, thereby keeping it in balance. Using a "psionics skill" approach based on the power framework, I'd recommend that, for every 10 full character points of value of the ability you're trying to activate, you receive a -1 penalty to your skill roll. (If you prefer an Energy cost like "magic as spells", then just have every 10 character points of ability cost 1 Energy... but I find this makes it too much like magic, and at which point you may as well go with spells as psionics... also, it may be a flavor-based issue if you have both magic and psionics in the campaign as its nice, flavor-wise, to have different powers work differently).

For example (using the 10 point threshold), I want to use the Astral Armor psionic ability (Psionic Powers, p.26). To do so, I need the Astral Projection Talent and need to purchase the Astral Armor skill, as well as the Astral Travel skill as a prerequisite. The ability costs 3/level. With only the skill, I can therefore activate up to level 3 at no penalty, up to level 6 at -1, at up level 10 at -2, up to level 13 at -3, etc. I could theoretically, with just 1 point in the Astral Armor skill, attempt to activate an Astral Armor with DR 100... but that would be at -10 to skill.

As another example, using Astral Travel, to get the ability, you only need the Astral Travel skill. Looking at the cost of the ability for levels 1 to 6, to use Astral Travel at level 1 is at -2 to skill, -3 to skill for level 2, -4 for level 3, -5 for level 4, -6 for level 5, and -8 for level 6.

That's what it looks like with a 10 point threshold. Play around to find the levels you like for your game. Perhaps a -1 per 5 points will keep the powers more in check, or you can go for -1 per 20 points if you clearly want super-psis.

You otherwise apply all the usual rules for psionic abilities as per GURPS Psionic Powers. This includes the requirement of Psionic Power Talents as prerequisites, the -1 to skill rolls for every currently active ability of the same power talent, the ability to use psi techniques at a penalty to skill (on top of the penalty based on the cost of the underlying ability) and a cost of 2 FP, etc.

One change I'd recommend for balance purpose is to eliminate the ability to use psionic skills at default. Like mage spells, make them spend at least 1 point on the skill to let them use it.

Anyway, that should let you built a relatively powerful psi with just a few points while still maintaining the flavor of psi defined in GURPS Psionic Powers rather than the flavor provided in GURPS Magic.