[Basic] Skill of the week: Traps

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by (E)

Here are a few ideas, Explosives, triggers, timers, adhesives, lubricants.

Explosives don't use Traps skill, either.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Explosives don't use Traps skill, either.

No but the mechanical elements of a booby trap probably do.

For instance in one Robb White juvie, the chief at a UDT school did not use explosives in the bombs he made for the hapless recruits because that might kill someone and waste the navy a lot of money. He did however use electric shock charges where the explosive would have been. The rest of the stuff he made was in fact the same as it would have been if he had made it and the same as some enemy devices if I remember the book. That chief had Traps to a high degree. He probably had explosives too but that was not relevant.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

For instance in one Robb White juvie, the chief at a UDT school did not use explosives in the bombs he made for the hapless recruits because that might kill someone and waste the navy a lot of money. He did however use electric shock charges where the explosive would have been. The rest of the stuff he made was in fact the same as it would have been if he had made it and the same as some enemy devices if I remember the book. That chief had Traps to a high degree. He probably had explosives too but that was not relevant.

Yes, but that's an artificially contrived situation that's dramatically interesting precisely because it's unusual. And you can handle such situations in GURPS by saying, for example, "Okay, in this case you can roll versus your Explosives skill to set a non-explosive trap, because it's a simulated trap that works the same way as a real explosive trap." That doesn't mean that either skill can substitute generically for the other.

And when you remove poisons and explosives from the list, most of what remains in the use of chemistry in traps is materials and components that you could buy off the shelf, quite possibly at higher quality, but that for some reason you need to provide for yourself. Though I suppose there could be cases where you needed especially high purity, and where a Chemistry roll could complement a Traps roll to provide it.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by whswhs

That doesn't mean that either skill can substitute generically for the other.

Was that in question?

Originally Posted by whswhs

And when you remove poisons and explosives from the list, most of what remains in the use of chemistry in traps is materials and components that you could buy off the shelf, quite possibly at higher quality, but that for some reason you need to provide for yourself. Though I suppose there could be cases where you needed especially high purity, and where a Chemistry roll could complement a Traps roll to provide it.

You could buy poisons and explosives off the shelf too, if you've got access to a shelf that will sell you hazardous materials without objection. Which sometimes you do, of course.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

You could buy poisons and explosives off the shelf too, if you've got access to a shelf that will sell you hazardous materials without objection. Which sometimes you do, of course.

Sure. But it's rather more likely that an industrial supply place will sell you other sorts of chemicals without keeping massively detailed records.

[weby]

On the traps skill use: It is a skill that every party in any genre seems to have, how important it is varies a lot but not the basic need. (There are surely some settings that do not but have not played or GMed in such). In modern an UT settings it is more of detection systems, in fantasy about actual traps and secret doors and such.

Originally Posted by whswhs

Sure. But it's rather more likely that an industrial supply place will sell you other sorts of chemicals without keeping massively detailed records.

Currently there are records of everything sold. A police investigation will find out the things if they have a reason to spend the massive manpower needed.

[gikiski]

Originally Posted by ericthered

It is a touch cinematic, as it covers ALL traps, from covered pits to heat detection technology.

Let Familiarity B169 have its way here at least with "type" of traps.

[Lord Azagthoth]

Originally Posted by weby

On the traps skill use: It is a skill that every party in any genre seems to have, how important it is varies a lot but not the basic need. (There are surely some settings that do not but have not played or GMed in such). In modern an UT settings it is more of detection systems, in fantasy about actual traps and secret doors and such.

The detection systems is in both settings present. In UT its an infrared sensor, laser sensor, lifesign scanner, in an historic setting a snare, pressure plate, doorknob, and in a fantasy setting a spell, magical aura, etc.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by weby

Currently there are records of everything sold. A police investigation will find out the things if they have a reason to spend the massive manpower needed.

Not really. Maybe for the explosives, but I can buy various dangerous corrosives and stuff far more reliably toxic than most historical poisons for cash at most any hardware or garden supply place. Many of them even labeled as intended for poisoning things, just not humans. Even in an obsessive police state that did, there'd presumably be so many purchases a week you couldn't possibly investigate everybody who had made one.

Actually at least in the US I'd bet I can get small amounts of some explosives without much more. I can't imagine the gun rights lobby would have allowed "reloading supplies" to be regulated to the point of requiring persistent records of purchases.

[weby]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Not really. Maybe for the explosives, but I can buy various dangerous corrosives and stuff far more reliably toxic than most historical poisons for cash at most any hardware or garden supply place. Many of them even labeled as intended for poisoning things, just not humans. Even in an obsessive police state that did, there'd presumably be so many purchases a week you couldn't possibly investigate everybody who had made one.

Actually at least in the US I'd bet I can get small amounts of some explosives without much more. I can't imagine the gun rights lobby would have allowed "reloading supplies" to be regulated to the point of requiring persistent records of purchases.

whswhs was talking about industrial supply places and given that as example for Breivik the police was able to track down the purchases of fertilizer and oil he used to make his bombs despite neither of them being a controlled substance I would assume that for more dangerous substances the thing would be easier as just the safety requirements of such require more paperwork.

Basically when I have purchased lots of strange stuff over the years the suppliers have usually wanted proper documentation and things like addresses and in one case I got a retroactive safety bulletin for something by mail.

Also purchasing by cash is a lot less anonymous than it used to be due to the high number of recording security cameras in stores.

So if you buy something in a small quantity and use it to kill a single person or similar, the low resources given to such crime will likely not find you that way. But if you do a large quantity of small cash purchases and then do something like a terrorist attack with the purchased stuff the police will go out in such a force that they will likely find you buying them from several places and then suddenly your whole life is picked apart for any other proof.

That reminds me of a recent case of a bad narcotics cop(Jari Aarnio) who was recently jailed. One of the breakthroughs in the investigation was a cash purchase of two mobile phones that were later used in a major drug crime. The purchaser was identified from the photos(he was a known minor criminal) and questioned. That led them to start uncovering more when they looked closer.