[MA] [TG] Is Instant Disarm realistic?

[Walrus]

Some search on videos regarding disarms always show them involving grappling or at least cross-parrying of some sorts.

So, is Instant Disarm (TG 13) by striking a weapon really a case, or is it more or less cinematic?

[Ulzgoroth]

I present evidence of such a thing happening.

It may be unreliable or unfit for general use for some other reason, but it appears to be real.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I present evidence of such a thing happening.

It may be unreliable or unfit for general use for some other reason, but it appears to be real.

That's not a disarm, that's a critical fail with a dropped weapon result. That's probably the most common real-world disarm (at least between comparable weight weapons; try to parry a baseball bat with a foil and you're gonna drop your weapon) -- an attacker attempts a beat or a bind, the defender fails badly, so instead of simply pushing his weapon out of line for a subsequent attack, he drops the weapon.

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by Anthony

That's not a disarm, that's a critical fail with a dropped weapon result. That's probably the most common real-world disarm (at least between comparable weight weapons; try to parry a baseball bat with a foil and you're gonna drop your weapon) -- an attacker attempts a beat or a bind, the defender fails badly, so instead of simply pushing his weapon out of line for a subsequent attack, he drops the weapon.

This to a tee. That was definitely a crit fail on a parry roll, and disarms really aren't attempted in fencing because they are slow, telegraph what you are doing, and leave you wide open. Any sort of little trick disarms that don't do this are pretty darned situational, so you don't really see them. All of that said, there are real disarming techniques in fencing, and when they work, it's instant. They just don't get used for the above reasons.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Humabout

Any sort of little trick disarms that don't do this are pretty darned situational, so you don't really see them.

Opportunistic maneuvers aren't something any RPG I'm familiar with does well. There's a difference between deciding ahead of time to disarm someone, and disarming someone because they put themselves in a position where it's practical to do so.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Walrus

So, is Instant Disarm (TG 13) by striking a weapon really a case, or is it more or less cinematic?

It really is a case.

I can pretty easily disarm a sword wielder (any one-handed weapon really) with a polearm. But that's a measure of strong leverage.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Walrus

Some search on videos regarding disarms always show them involving grappling or at least cross-parrying of some sorts.

So, is Instant Disarm (TG 13) by striking a weapon really a case, or is it more or less cinematic?

It's a thing, but it's not a high-percentage thing. Personally, were I starting the beat rules from scratch, I'd fold instant disarms into one possible result of a beat (unready weapon). I've both done that to folks, and had it done on me.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anthony

-- an attacker attempts a beat or a bind, the defender fails badly, so instead of simply pushing his weapon out of line for a subsequent attack, he drops the weapon.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

It's a thing, but it's not a high-percentage thing. Personally, were I starting the beat rules from scratch, I'd fold instant disarms into one possible result of a beat (unready weapon). I've both done that to folks, and had it done on me.

Hmmm. It's possible the 'sweet' little disarm trick I know is just a variant of a beat.

You place the blade or butt of the polearm against blade/haft just above the hilt/hand and rotate their blade to the outside of their hand spinning it out of their grip.

But I've done it to sparring partners even when they were expecting and prepared for it (just still trying to retain the sword with only one hand instead of two), so it's not really just a "the defender fails badly" situation (granted, a polearm brings an awful lot of leverage to bear against a single hand in that position, so...).

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Hmmm. It's possible the 'sweet' little disarm trick I know is just a variant of a beat.

In fencing terms I would call that a variant of a bind; dunno what G:MA calls it. It just happens you're using grossly mismatched weapons, which makes disarms a lot more likely.

[Joseph Paul]

You can do what evileeyore outlines in pole arm vs pole arm except that you start on the outside of the opponent's hand and strike in so you push the haft out of the thumb-to-forefinger grip. The other fingers generally can't put enough force on the haft to prevent it from slipping.

Now this may be applicable only where halberdiers etc have learned that keeping a death grip on the haft means that they are limited in what maneuvers they can make. In formations not so much of a problem. One-on-one there is a lot more that can be done and that calls for more fluidity in handling the weapon.