The role of the GM

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by trooper6

That is astoundingly awful. And amazing that you've encountered so many of them.

May I ask what if you've noticed patterns in these bad GMs? For example, are most of your bad GMs GMing D&D? Or do you find such bad GMs across all game systems equally? Do you find the gender balance of your bad GMs equal? Do you find the age balance of your bad GMs equal?

The few bad GMs I've run into have all been D&D GMs, who have been men in their 20s, and who've seen the game as being a sort of competitive Players vs. GM sort of combat experience. I haven't run into more of them, because I don't play a lot of D&D.

I've found them across systems. The worst were Rolemaster, D&D, and WFRP 1E.

Many more than I've played under, I've heard reports from multiple players that all line up. I never understand why people are willing to suffer a bad game and a totally toxic GM.

[Boomerang]

I started GMing when I was twelve, and I was terrible at it. My storylines were simplistic, juvenile and often made no sense. I was inconsistent with rules decisions, played favourites with the PCs (usually not intentionally) and sucked at acting and doing accents (and still do). I pretty much made every classic mistake you can make. The weird thing is that all my friends loved it and kept coming back for more because at least I tried to make it fun. RPGs are very tolerant of bad GMing if your heart is in the right place. What they can't handle are jerks.

Every story I see about a truly bad GM has nothing to do with competence, it is about whether they are a jerk or not.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by Boomerang

I started GMing when I was twelve, and I was terrible at it. My storylines were simplistic, juvenile and often made no sense. I was inconsistent with rules decisions, played favourites with the PCs (usually not intentionally) and sucked at acting and doing accents (and still do). I pretty much made every classic mistake you can make. The weird thing is that all my friends loved it and kept coming back for more because at least I tried to make it fun. RPGs are very tolerant of bad GMing if your heart is in the right place. What they can't handle are jerks.

Every story I see about a truly bad GM has nothing to do with competence, it is about whether they are a jerk or not.

What I've noticed is that Jerks also tend to be drawn to the GM role...

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

What I've noticed is that Jerks also tend to be drawn to the GM role...

Also not my experience. The biggest jerks I've dealt with were players.

I think back to high school where the players all were chaotic-evil Drow Ranger/Magic-Users. They'd roll d12's for penis size and any time there was a female NPC present they'd rape her.

And jerk-y player behavior has not been not limited to high school. The player who is a spotlight hog. Who, because they feel they have no responsibility, delights in messing up the game and trolling. The player who breaks immersion for the lolz. The player who is argumentative. etc.

But again, unlike you, I've mostly had positive GM experiences...and in the rare bad GM experience, I don't play with them anymore.

I also will note, one of the ways, when I GM, that I stack the odds in my favor for creating a positive experience for everyone at the table is by having players who are positive and don't imagine most GMs are jerks. I find that people who have an antagonistic relationship to GMs tend to bring that to the table and make the game unpleasant for the other players.

So, I don't play with jerky GMs...and I don't GM for antagonistic players.

[Kalzazz]

I have fortunately never encountered the 'jerk DM', certainly some DMs have been better than others, but always someone taking a credible shot to deliver a quality gaming experience

I've unfortunately never experienced the gaming nirvana level of DMing that whswhs brings

Most DMs bring a mix of 'that was awesome' 'I rolled dice and hung out with my friends and it was pretty good' 'the game was mediocre, but I hung out with my friends so not to bad' 'I wish I played video games by mself instead' 'let's pretend this never happened'

Really no different than say watching movies, DMing ranges between 'Sooooo cool!' and 'I want my wasted life back!'

[Frost]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

What I've noticed is that Jerks also tend to be drawn to the GM role...

Originally Posted by trooper6

Also not my experience. The biggest jerks I've dealt with were players.

From my own experiences with more than my fair share of jerks, you are both correct to a point. Most of the real jerk gamers I have known were equally happy on both sides of the screen, I don't think I have ever met one who wasn't happy to GM (if they were ever alowed to) but none of them ever complained about playing as long as they could play 'properly'.

The hallmark of a proper jerk seems to be a sort of twisted love for the hobby in general. In their eyes this justifies disruptive or downright creepy behaviour, bad GM'ing etc because they ultimately help 'improve' the game by fixing defective characters, setting elements or rules or educating or removing players who 'don't get it'.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by Frost

From my own experiences with more than my fair share of jerks, you are both correct to a point. Most of the real jerk gamers I have known were equally happy on both sides of the screen, I don't think I have ever met one who wasn't happy to GM (if they were ever alowed to) but none of them ever complained about playing as long as they could play 'properly'.

The hallmark of a proper jerk seems to be a sort of twisted love for the hobby in general. In their eyes this justifies disruptive or downright creepy behaviour, bad GM'ing etc because they ultimately help 'improve' the game by fixing defective characters, setting elements or rules or educating or removing players who 'don't get it'.

All this does is demonstrate that, even in our hobby, we have our share of people who have their heads permanently stuck up their @$$e$, and that happens on both sides of the screen.

Me, I treat fellow gamers who act badly in the same way I treat anybody who acts badly. They don't get to be a part of my life.

[calgodot]

Originally Posted by trooper6

The biggest jerks I've dealt with were players.

Ditto the the nth. I've encountered "bad GMs" who don't know rules, don't prepare for the game, or otherwise fail to honor their duties and responsibilities as GM. Aggressive, "jerk" behavior I have only seen from players. On occasion, I've seen jerk players provoke GMs into behaving like jerks. Most stories I've heard about "jerk GMs," the story begins with a player being a jerk by refusing to accept a GM ruling or otherwise challenging the GMs authority. Most of the times I've been called a "jerk GM" have stemmed from incidents where I won't tolerate jerk behavior from players.

Originally Posted by trooper6

And jerk-y player behavior has not been not limited to high school. The player who is a spotlight hog. Who, because they feel they have no responsibility, delights in messing up the game and trolling. The player who breaks immersion for the lolz. The player who is argumentative. etc.

I've been playing on Roll20 a great deal for the past year or more (on top of over 30 years of tabletop playing). In that time, I've experienced the worst gamer behaviors (usually a DnD game) as well as the best (usually a Fiasco game).

I've developed a theory: adult males gathering for what is perceived to be an adolescent activity fall into adolescent male behavioral patterns and engage in transgressive behavior that is not tolerated in their usual work or social arenas. It is a "safe" place to express things that would be regarded as antisocial or even hostile in most (if not all) other circumstances.

This is not to excuse base, gross, offensive and antisocial behavior at the gaming table. On the contrary, working from this theory has enabled me to more accurately identify why a particular player is expressing or behaving in a particular manner, and then to suggest ways to either curb the behavior or incorporate it into the player character.

There are some things I just don't condone among players, however. Like the occasional player who wants to be a rapist - I won't even let someone who expressed that idea into my game.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by calgodot

I've been playing on Roll20 a great deal for the past year or more (on top of over 30 years of tabletop playing). In that time, I've experienced the worst gamer behaviors (usually a DnD game) as well as the best (usually a Fiasco game).

I've developed a theory: adult males gathering for what is perceived to be an adolescent activity fall into adolescent male behavioral patterns and engage in transgressive behavior that is not tolerated in their usual work or social arenas. It is a "safe" place to express things that would be regarded as antisocial or even hostile in most (if not all) other circumstances.

I'm not quite clear if you're saying that you're seeing worse behaviour on Roll20 than in face-to-face games?

There does seem to be an effect where some people behave much worse on the net than they do face-to-face, and I'm wondering if this is an alternative explanation for the behaviour you're seeing.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by calgodot

I've developed a theory: adult males gathering for what is perceived to be an adolescent activity fall into adolescent male behavioral patterns and engage in transgressive behavior that is not tolerated in their usual work or social arenas. It is a "safe" place to express things that would be regarded as antisocial or even hostile in most (if not all) other circumstances.

I'm not sure if I've ever run a campaign where all the players were male, at least not in the past quarter century. I recently ran a one-shot where all five players were female. But my games are almost all mixed-sex. Perhaps that's why I don't see much of what you describe.