Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF) - Page 2

Dolarre · 06-24-2016, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Kromm also used to have some variant missile spells on his website that allowed mages to fire multiple projectiles in a single casting. So instead firing 1 fireball in a one second casting you could fire up to 12d divided between multiple missiles (so 2x6d, or 3x4d, etc). I'm not sure I'd allow that one, but it's an idea

This sounds interesting. Does anyone have a link to this?

dripton · 06-24-2016, 11:33 PM

For mages, I allow the Cast and Blast optional rule from http://ottgaming.grimoire.ca/Spell_Changes for missile and melee spells. (Basically, you can cast the spell as a free action once you're done Concentrating, rather than having to wait another turn.)

Missile spells mostly suck because of casting time. The one time they're pretty good is when you charge one up outside battle and carry it around. The Cast and Blast rule doesn't make that case any better, but it makes actually casting missile spells during combat more reasonable.

ericbsmith · 06-25-2016, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolarre

This sounds interesting. Does anyone have a link to this?

I actually have the article archived. If Sean permits I can put it up on my webpage. I actually remember retyping it for him at one point a long time ago because he'd lost his copy from the server somehow and didn't have a backup and at the time the only copy I had was a printed copy. A couple of the spells (Mass Zombie and Sacrifice) actually worked their way into the official spells.

Icelander · 06-27-2016, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PK

We've played with allowing Compartmentalized Mind, but in the end most of us (as GMs) restrict it to NPCs only, since it's a ridiculously easy way to build "boss monster" spellcasters.

I allow it to anyone, assuming that they learn a magical-martial art style which includes a limited form of it.

Thayan Wandfighting includes the ability to trigger magical wands while making some form of Attack maneuver, using Main-Gauche skill for the wands. Advanced stylists can wield two wands at once, discharging magical effects at a rate which astonishes enemies.

The martial sub-sect of the Northern Wizards, the Warriors of the Argent Lance, teach advanced students how to attack and defend with a staff (and Force Staff, Force Saber or Force Sword) while casting some of their less complex spells simultaneously.

And so on.

Kalzazz · 06-27-2016, 10:21 AM

As a DM I have no issue with mages buying CM, it isn't cheap, and is kind of like WM or Gunslinger or Heroic Archer in a 'differentiate wheats and chaffs' kind of way

Anthony · 06-27-2016, 11:29 AM

There's a separate game play issue with letting mages cast too fast: mages have limited energy reserves. If you let them burn through those reserves fast, either whatever they're doing wins the fight and everyone else is bored, or they run out of energy and get to sit there being bored and useless for the rest of the fight. Having characters with a heavy alpha strike like that isn't necessarily bad in a tactical wargame, but it's not great in an RPG.

khorboth · 06-22-2016, 08:11 PM

I have GMd quite a bit for an archer who has heroic archer, a high fast-draw, and a perk which lets her skip fast-draw rolls under normal circumstances. The combination means that she's shooting every round. It's pretty brutal, but not unbalanced for the point expense.

For wizards, I haven't tried getting rid of the missile-spell delay. The damage-per-round is already pretty similar to the archer. I find that it makes my magi think more creatively. They can still cast a spell every round, just not a missile spell.

If you want to encourage this more, use the speed/range table for range penalties on regular spells. That opens up options a lot.

simply Nathan · 06-22-2016, 08:40 PM

My GM just let me fire off my fireballs on the turn cast if I didn't aim, charge them up, or take the FP discount. Worked out fine since I'd usually want to do those things anyway, aside from the energy discount (skill 12/13 spells and skill 10 Innate Attack hurts if you don't take your time and pace yourself).

DanHoward · 06-23-2016, 08:10 AM

My group had problems with this due to perceived unfairness. Archers and mages want to have all the benefits of melee fighters with none of the hazards. If an archer or mage wants to have as many attacks as a melee fighter and do the same damage as a melee fighter then they should get up close and take the same risks as a melee fighter.

munin · 06-23-2016, 08:23 AM

The Spellslinger advantage* allows you to make your attack on the same turn you finish casting, but both rolls are at -6 like a Rapid Strike. An Extra Option perk to allow only that would probably be fine (since the option is balanced by the penalties).

* At the moment I can only find a write-up of Spellslinger for RPM in Pyramid #3/66. Is there one for regular magic too?

06-24-2016, 11:33 PM	#2
dripton Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Northern Virginia, USA	Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF) For mages, I allow the Cast and Blast optional rule from http://ottgaming.grimoire.ca/Spell_Changes for missile and melee spells. (Basically, you can cast the spell as a free action once you're done Concentrating, rather than having to wait another turn.) Missile spells mostly suck because of casting time. The one time they're pretty good is when you charge one up outside battle and carry it around. The Cast and Blast rule doesn't make that case any better, but it makes actually casting missile spells during combat more reasonable.

06-27-2016, 10:21 AM	#5
Kalzazz Join Date: Feb 2009	Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF) As a DM I have no issue with mages buying CM, it isn't cheap, and is kind of like WM or Gunslinger or Heroic Archer in a 'differentiate wheats and chaffs' kind of way

06-27-2016, 11:29 AM	#6
Anthony Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA	Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF) There's a separate game play issue with letting mages cast too fast: mages have limited energy reserves. If you let them burn through those reserves fast, either whatever they're doing wins the fight and everyone else is bored, or they run out of energy and get to sit there being bored and useless for the rest of the fight. Having characters with a heavy alpha strike like that isn't necessarily bad in a tactical wargame, but it's not great in an RPG. __________________ My GURPS site and Blog.

06-22-2016, 08:11 PM	#7
khorboth Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Denver, CO	Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF) I have GMd quite a bit for an archer who has heroic archer, a high fast-draw, and a perk which lets her skip fast-draw rolls under normal circumstances. The combination means that she's shooting every round. It's pretty brutal, but not unbalanced for the point expense. For wizards, I haven't tried getting rid of the missile-spell delay. The damage-per-round is already pretty similar to the archer. I find that it makes my magi think more creatively. They can still cast a spell every round, just not a missile spell. If you want to encourage this more, use the speed/range table for range penalties on regular spells. That opens up options a lot.

06-22-2016, 08:40 PM	#8
simply Nathan formerly known as 'Kenneth Latrans' Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wyoming, Michigan	Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF) My GM just let me fire off my fireballs on the turn cast if I didn't aim, charge them up, or take the FP discount. Worked out fine since I'd usually want to do those things anyway, aside from the energy discount (skill 12/13 spells and skill 10 Innate Attack hurts if you don't take your time and pace yourself). __________________ Ba-weep granah wheep minibon. Wubba lubba dub dub.

06-23-2016, 08:10 AM	#9
DanHoward Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia	Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF) My group had problems with this due to perceived unfairness. Archers and mages want to have all the benefits of melee fighters with none of the hazards. If an archer or mage wants to have as many attacks as a melee fighter and do the same damage as a melee fighter then they should get up close and take the same risks as a melee fighter. __________________ Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting. Last edited by DanHoward; 06-23-2016 at 08:13 AM.

06-23-2016, 08:23 AM	#10
munin Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vermont, USA	Re: Archers and Mages Attacking Every Turn (DF) The Spellslinger advantage* allows you to make your attack on the same turn you finish casting, but both rolls are at -6 like a Rapid Strike. An Extra Option perk to allow only that would probably be fine (since the option is balanced by the penalties). * At the moment I can only find a write-up of Spellslinger for RPM in Pyramid #3/66. Is there one for regular magic too?