Low-Tech Armor - Proposal for some modifications

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Are you sure that it actually is? Because I have to say that picture is not selling it as anything more than surface styling.

A handy photo of an anime cuirass from the inside showing the leathers is in Heroic Armour of the Italian Renaissance.

[Varyon]

I'll preface this by noting you might want to pick up the armor design Pyramid articles, which take a slightly different approach (and have more materials) from Low Tech. "Low Tech Armor Design" is in Pyramid #3/52, while "Cutting Edge Armor Design" (for TL 6-9 armors) is in Pyramid #3/85.

Originally Posted by Rasna

One thing which disappointed me is the bad efficiency of some metal armors in the table like Scale and Segmented Plate.
According to the current table, Heavy Layered Cloth is better than Medium Scale (both 28 lbs for torso armor, but Medium Scale has DR 4 [DR 3 vs. crushing] and Heavy Layered cloth has DR 4 vs. all damage) and Segmented Plate is two times less efficient than solid Plate armor.

I hadn't notice the scale issue. Yeah, that's a bad one. The armor design articles I linked above actually have scale being markedly better than cloth of equal weight (DR 4/3 scale made of good iron would weigh 18.5 lb for torso, while DR 4 layered cloth would weigh 28.5 lb for torso), but actually makes scale better than segmented plate both in terms of weight (DR 4 segmented plate made of good iron would weigh 24.4 lb) and cost (that scale costs $370, while the heavier segmented plate costs $915). Reversing the given CW* (but not CC) values would give you something more logical - DR 4 layered cloth is 28.5 lb, DR 4/3 scale is 24.4 lb, DR 4 segmented plate is 18.5 lb, DR 4/2* mail is 15.1 lb, and DR 4 plate is 13.5 lb. Interestingly, the scale and segmented plate values actually match up pretty darn close to what you've suggested (although they scale up and down a bit differently, due to Low Tech and the article using different assumptions).

*CW is Construction Weight, CC is Construction Cost; these are modifiers that the article uses to determine an armor's weigh and cost.

Originally Posted by Rasna

Modifies on weight (Single-Piece Helmets, Fluting, Expert Tailoring and others):
-10% weight = +1 CF
-15% weight = +2 CF
-20% weight = +3 CF
-25% weight = +4 CF

That's really quite generous. The values in LT are meant to be fairly realistic representation of the difficulty of making (and thus the rarity of) such pieces. Your prices are still high enough that better base designs (upgrading from brigandine to plate, for example) are preferable to using the lesser design and tacking on weight reductions.

[Rasna]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I'll preface this by noting you might want to pick up the armor design Pyramid articles, which take a slightly different approach (and have more materials) from Low Tech. "Low Tech Armor Design" is in Pyramid #3/52, while "Cutting Edge Armor Design" (for TL 6-9 armors) is in Pyramid #3/85.



I hadn't notice the scale issue. Yeah, that's a bad one. The armor design articles I linked above actually have scale being markedly better than cloth of equal weight (DR 4/3 scale made of good iron would weigh 18.5 lb for torso, while DR 4 layered cloth would weigh 28.5 lb for torso), but actually makes scale better than segmented plate both in terms of weight (DR 4 segmented plate made of good iron would weigh 24.4 lb) and cost (that scale costs $370, while the heavier segmented plate costs $915). Reversing the given CW* (but not CC) values would give you something more logical - DR 4 layered cloth is 28.5 lb, DR 4/3 scale is 24.4 lb, DR 4 segmented plate is 18.5 lb, DR 4/2* mail is 15.1 lb, and DR 4 plate is 13.5 lb. Interestingly, the scale and segmented plate values actually match up pretty darn close to what you've suggested (although they scale up and down a bit differently, due to Low Tech and the article using different assumptions).

*CW is Construction Weight, CC is Construction Cost; these are modifiers that the article uses to determine an armor's weigh and cost.



That's really quite generous. The values in LT are meant to be fairly realistic representation of the difficulty of making (and thus the rarity of) such pieces. Your prices are still high enough that better base designs (upgrading from brigandine to plate, for example) are preferable to using the lesser design and tacking on weight reductions.

What system do you use? I've read a similar system on a Pyramid Article, but if I remember well it tends to make armor even heavier, and GURPS armors are already heavier than historical ones.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Rasna

What system do you use? I've read a similar system on a Pyramid Article, but if I remember well it tends to make armor even heavier, and GURPS armors are already heavier than historical ones.

Yeah, "Low Tech Armor Design" (LTAD) has armor increasing completely linearly with weight, while the actual armors in Low Tech (LT) functionally get a "free" +1 to DR (I believe to account for deflection). The armors tend to be a bit off from each other, but in a proportional manner - if low DR armor is heavier in one system, the higher DR version will typically be lighter in that same system. For example, DR 3 plate for the Torso is 8 lb in LT and 10 lb in LTAD, while DR 9 plate for the same is 32 lb in LT and 30 lb in LTAD. This isn't always the case - note that LTAD reverses the trend for mail, for example (LT mail is 12, 15, and 18 lb for DR 3*, 4*, and 5*, respectively; LTAD mail made of good iron is 11.34 lb, 15.12 lb, and 18.9 lb, respectively). You typically hover around the same weight for a given amount of DR, although you'll want to swap the CW's for Scale and Segmented Plate.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Yeah, "Low Tech Armor Design" (LTAD) has armor increasing completely linearly with weight, while the actual armors in Low Tech (LT) functionally get a "free" +1 to DR (I believe to account for deflection). .

Partially for deflection and partially for the underpadding. The padding isn't worth DR 1 but it isn't 0 either. Realistically, the protective capacity doesn't increase linearly with thickness. There is a graph near the end of Williams' book but I don't have a page reference right now. Doubling the thickness increases resistance to penetration by a lot more than double.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Doubling the thickness increases resistance to penetration by a lot more than double.

That would be measuring energy to penetrate, and GURPS damage isn't linear in energy. It's actually a tautology that DR for steel is linear in thickness, because damage is defined in terms of penetration of steel.