[RPM] Connection and Charms

Kalzazz · 05-08-2016, 02:14 PM

The Time and Place issues for Non Adepts are at least semi less of an issue for making charms, since you want to make charms in a sanctified place where your charm lab is, and it already takes an extremely long time to make a charm

However, say Nancy the Non Adept wants to make some charms to take along on an adventure

She wants a healing charm, that can heal herself, or her friends Alice, Bob, and Carol, or some other worthy person she happens across on her quest

However, if I understand Connection correctly, she needs to know who she wants to heal when she makes the charm - with them being present, or know exactly where they are, or have a piece of intimate connection/piece of them

So I'm not sure if she can make a general purpose 'Heal whichever of myself or my 3 friends, when the charm is broken and the breaker is pointing at them' charm, and people she doesn't know are definitely out of luck at being healed?

Making an attack charm seems even worse, how is a non adept ever going to use a Destruction Charm? Since there enemies are not going to cooperate for the several hours of being present while they make the charm. I suppose it is only for enemies who you manage to acquire pieces of or intimate items related to (which admittedly is neat, but oftentimes it seems if you can do that, you can also shoot or stab your enemies in the process)

So if Nancy wants to participate in a fight, it seems she either needs to just eat the -5 for skipping Connection, or rely on buffing spells target directly on her friends or herself (which she can plan ahead of time), or use emanation based attacks centered on herself

Am I missing something? I admit, I haven't done much with Non Adepts, but I had always kinda assumed they were supposed to be DnD style 'memorized spell fireball flingers' and such, and the Connection requirement seems to nuke that

Dalillama · 05-08-2016, 02:34 PM

I would say that being present when the charm releases is sufficient.

Anaraxes · 05-08-2016, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GURPS Thaumatology: RPM p27

Until a charm is activated, its “subject” is the charm itself – the physical token.

When you create a charm, you don't need a connection to the subject of the spell when it goes off. You just need the object you're making into a charm.

Changing the target of a charm is as simple as handing it from person to person, so there doesn't seem to be any binding to the ultimate target until the moment of use.

The same is true of conditional rituals (of which charms are a subset).

Even of lacking a connection were relevant, such lack doesn't make a ritual impossible; it just gives a -5 for non-adepts.

starslayer · 05-08-2016, 03:05 PM

1. External damage spells target the caster (They create a ball spell which the caster can wield as per an innate attack, and or the ball is created at a set distance from the caster and goes off immediately (for area effect spells))- Thus 'strike dead, Affliction heart attack' is going to be difficult to do without being an adept, but 'fireball' is going to be fine.

2. 'the user/consumer of this charm' is also a valid describable target. This will make in combat buffing/healing more awkward due to the double-clutch (PC has to get into touch range, pass charm to subject, subject uses charm)- so being able to preplan group healing spells, and applicable buffs, is good. Alchemy still works as expected though (drink potion get healed, deliver poison to foe = bad stuff)

3. Ward activation would also work as per normal 'the first person to step within 1 hex of this rock'- this may be a wash for combat magic however as you'll now need to put appropriate sense spells on your charm, and get the trigger devices into appropriate positions.

4. I think GURPS spirits had an interesting workaround for this- it had a lightning spell that created a token, when the charm was activated lightning strikes the token (and the area immediately around it)- the token was there for the casting so non-issue. You still have to figure out how your going to move tokens around in combat- but the target is a non-issue at least.

Kalzazz · 05-08-2016, 04:55 PM

Alright, so if the connection isn't checked until the charm is actually activated, then if for instance who you wanted to use the charm on is present at the time of activation life is good

Varyon · 05-09-2016, 02:55 PM

A Charm that, when broken, kills King Whatshisname (with Affliction: Heart Attack, let's say), would need Connection satisfied when it was created. A Charm that, when broken, kills the person who's hair is in the attached locket (or the hand of the caster, or whatever), would need Connection satisfied when it was used - it needs the target's hair. A Charm that, when broken, kills whoever the caster is pointing at, would need Connection satisfied when it was used - in this case, the target being present would be sufficient.

05-08-2016, 02:14 PM	#1
Kalzazz Join Date: Feb 2009	[RPM] Connection and Charms The Time and Place issues for Non Adepts are at least semi less of an issue for making charms, since you want to make charms in a sanctified place where your charm lab is, and it already takes an extremely long time to make a charm However, say Nancy the Non Adept wants to make some charms to take along on an adventure She wants a healing charm, that can heal herself, or her friends Alice, Bob, and Carol, or some other worthy person she happens across on her quest However, if I understand Connection correctly, she needs to know who she wants to heal when she makes the charm - with them being present, or know exactly where they are, or have a piece of intimate connection/piece of them So I'm not sure if she can make a general purpose 'Heal whichever of myself or my 3 friends, when the charm is broken and the breaker is pointing at them' charm, and people she doesn't know are definitely out of luck at being healed? Making an attack charm seems even worse, how is a non adept ever going to use a Destruction Charm? Since there enemies are not going to cooperate for the several hours of being present while they make the charm. I suppose it is only for enemies who you manage to acquire pieces of or intimate items related to (which admittedly is neat, but oftentimes it seems if you can do that, you can also shoot or stab your enemies in the process) So if Nancy wants to participate in a fight, it seems she either needs to just eat the -5 for skipping Connection, or rely on buffing spells target directly on her friends or herself (which she can plan ahead of time), or use emanation based attacks centered on herself Am I missing something? I admit, I haven't done much with Non Adepts, but I had always kinda assumed they were supposed to be DnD style 'memorized spell fireball flingers' and such, and the Connection requirement seems to nuke that

05-08-2016, 02:34 PM	#2
Dalillama Join Date: Nov 2004	Re: [RPM] Connection and Charms I would say that being present when the charm releases is sufficient.

05-08-2016, 03:05 PM	#4
starslayer Join Date: Dec 2006	Re: [RPM] Connection and Charms 1. External damage spells target the caster (They create a ball spell which the caster can wield as per an innate attack, and or the ball is created at a set distance from the caster and goes off immediately (for area effect spells))- Thus 'strike dead, Affliction heart attack' is going to be difficult to do without being an adept, but 'fireball' is going to be fine. 2. 'the user/consumer of this charm' is also a valid describable target. This will make in combat buffing/healing more awkward due to the double-clutch (PC has to get into touch range, pass charm to subject, subject uses charm)- so being able to preplan group healing spells, and applicable buffs, is good. Alchemy still works as expected though (drink potion get healed, deliver poison to foe = bad stuff) 3. Ward activation would also work as per normal 'the first person to step within 1 hex of this rock'- this may be a wash for combat magic however as you'll now need to put appropriate sense spells on your charm, and get the trigger devices into appropriate positions. 4. I think GURPS spirits had an interesting workaround for this- it had a lightning spell that created a token, when the charm was activated lightning strikes the token (and the area immediately around it)- the token was there for the casting so non-issue. You still have to figure out how your going to move tokens around in combat- but the target is a non-issue at least.

05-08-2016, 04:55 PM	#5
Kalzazz Join Date: Feb 2009	Re: [RPM] Connection and Charms Alright, so if the connection isn't checked until the charm is actually activated, then if for instance who you wanted to use the charm on is present at the time of activation life is good

05-09-2016, 02:55 PM	#6
Varyon Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: [RPM] Connection and Charms A Charm that, when broken, kills King Whatshisname (with Affliction: Heart Attack, let's say), would need Connection satisfied when it was created. A Charm that, when broken, kills the person who's hair is in the attached locket (or the hand of the caster, or whatever), would need Connection satisfied when it was used - it needs the target's hair. A Charm that, when broken, kills whoever the caster is pointing at, would need Connection satisfied when it was used - in this case, the target being present would be sufficient.