[DF] What's worked? What hasn't?

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Appletoe

Perhaps another way around this would be to grant certain enemies the 360 degree vision advantage with the justification that they're 'just that good'?

But that still maintains the blatant nonrealism that it's possible to run around an enemy, who is fully aware of your presence, and shiv him in the back.

The proposed solutions to Heroic Charge, in this thread, always revolve around exotic advantages of some sort (even if your case proposes the use of an exotic advantage to represent sheer non-supernatural skill), whereas my thinking is that it's boosting the realism of the facing rules that'll solve the problem. Because I like the concept of Extra Effort, and I like the idea of having Charge as one of several possible EE actions.

[DouglasCole]

Somewhere on my blog I discuss the possibility of a free facing change to allow mild repositioning against something like this. I'll look for it.

Found it.

[Appletoe]

What's edge protection?

[johndallman]

An optional rule from Low-Tech: see Blunt Trauma and Edged Weapons on p102.

Edit: Vicky, it might be worth putting this in the uFAQ, since we routine speak of "edge protection", but searching for that phrase doesn't find the rule.

[RobKamm]

Originally Posted by Edges

[*]Have you used Edge Protection rules in DF? How did it go?

Too fiddly for me and my table.

[*]It seems like most people use Extra Effort in combat. Have you allowed foes to use it as well? And to address the issue of Heroic Charge, what would you think of having that specific option cost 2 FP?

Yes. At least at the lieutenant and boss levels, mooks not so much.

Our "solution" to Heroic Charge is that it removes -1 from Move & Attack's penalty and ups the cap by 3. Thus, for 1 FP the Move & Attack is at -3 and has a cap of 12. Combatants may choose to spend up to 3 FP (-1/cap 18).

[*]Have you allowed Luck? What about options from GURPS Power-Ups 5: Impulse Buys?

Yes. Most players skip it on their first characters. Very few do with subsequent ones.

I'm not averse to Impulse Buys but haven't used them in play. If a player were to ask I'd probably say yes.

[*]Have you used any alternate pricing methods for attributes like the one for IQ found on PK's website?

Nope.

[*]Has anyone other than mlangsdorf tried a threshold magic system for DF? His home brew system is intriguing. But is it too much bookkeeping for my semi-casual players?

I used a hybrid system and will probably continue to do so. Most magic works in the normal manner. However, mages may "tap the energy in the environment" to get extra energy. This uses the threshold system. I don't have my notes with me but we use a relatively low threshold and really low recovery (5:1/2 per day if memory serves). Most casting uses the standard rules but when the chips are down wizards can run risks for some spectacular results.

[D10]

Originally Posted by Edges

Salutations All,

Salutations! lets get on to it then.

One of the things ill say upfront is that in the DF campaign im playing currently, teleport and flight spells are banned by the gods and only work on other planes, it was a nice balancing act hardwired into the setting so that travelling is not a trivial issue.

We also introduced a pyramidal cap to skills, to spend more than 16 points in a skill, you need two others at 8, the next cap is 28, to spend more than that in a skill you need 16 in two other skills, then you can invest up to 40 points in a skill and for the moment we set that as a hard cap that you need in game achievements to unlock, and at 700 points no one has unlocked it yet.

We allow extra HP at 50% of ST also.

Originally Posted by Edges

Were there any particular supplements that you felt were indispensable, problematic or unnecessary for your game?

The whole DF series is very good, altho I didnt really find use for the Divine Fervor mechanic since it came out after the whole setting was created using gurps magic rules for divine spells with power investiture.

Social Engineering is extremelly usefull if you have social types, Low Tech and their companions and expansions are excelent. I also loved many pyramids, and we use legendary Katanas from "Low Tech: At the edge of reality"

For spells we use almost all pyramids we can get out hands on with new spells, the thaumatology series, specially the magical styles book, epic spells, death spells, etc.

Originally Posted by Edges

Templates have you encountered players who felt restricted by them and if so, how did you handle it?

Never really managed to use the DF templates, the players I play with mostly feel restricted by them and would rather design their characters from the ground up.

Racial Templates otoh were created for the setting and do just fine.

Originally Posted by Edges

Have you found there to be any truth to these claims? If so, how would you suggest addressing them?

Theres no truth to those claims, what domiates combat is success, and success is achieved by competence in combat. In my group theres a huge variety of characters, only one of them is a scout/swashbuckler, and most often than not it is the wizards with great haste and charm at skill 25 that dominate combat.

Spellcasters can simply charm away your friends, turn them to stone, give their allies great haste, invisibility, and etc.

Due to this hard counter scenario, spellcasters have become a dominating force in the games we play.

When it comes to melle, one hand and shield is very powerfull for defense due to the PD bonus, martial arts (a must have book for fantasy imho) suggests treating some balanced 2h weapons as fencing weapons for parrying purposes, our GM allows you to either have that or gain a damage bonus equal to weapon master if you are using a 2h weapon (for those using unbalanced 2h weapons) which stacks with wpn master and shoots damage thro the roof.

So high ST, high skill melle types are extremelly powerfull and dangerous, theres an orc warrior in the group that when he turns all his powers up deals 16 dices of damage per hit. With great haste and his extra attack, thats 6 attacks per round at skill 27, we use deceptive attacks so he would attack reducing the opponents defense by 5.

His axe is so big, theres a chance of breaking rapiers, staffs and similar weapons, another character, a very social noble with little points invested in combat, manages to be competent by using a large shield, going all out defense, and standing next to the casters and protecting them with sacrificial parrys and blocks.

Everyone has a niche to fill in combat, and a well coordinated group can overcome their disadvantages by working toghether, the scout is very powerfull indeed, but it can be overcome by good game design and not giving him a chance to hit arrows on the enemy 100 yards away every combat.

We use the racial templates from the setting, and also allow things like powers, weapon master, etc. Basically things where an unusual background could justify something usually fly.

The elven mage in our group is from a half air elemental variant, and also unique in that he has no copies in parallel universes, and this allows him to use chronomantic spells, travel across the quantums, and etc.

Basically all existing templates are somewhat inspired in something, sometimes existing gurps templates, but its always tailored for setting assumptions

Originally Posted by Edges

Have you used The Last Gasp with DF? How does it interact with magic?

Only an NPC has it, and he never used it, so I dont know, but in theory, you should not be able to be healed.

Originally Posted by Edges

I have heard that some spells in GURPS Magic can be problematic. Do you have any warnings for me when it comes to DF?

Already gave you plenty, but basically, spells that allow easy travel, easy wins over enemies, charm specifically is one of the most powerfull spells to be used in combat with high skill, it becomes cheap, can be casted in one turn with skill 25 at a decent range and sustained indefinitely.

If it works, you just increased the point budget of the group by a lot while also weakening the other side. Its a great spell. Thing is, if you dont ban something, remember to have the enemies use it as well.

Telepathy can also be a great trivializer, by allowing the PCs to talk with NPCs that have access to vast lore at a great distance, maybe imposing some restrictions or drawbacks can be wise.

Great Haste is extremelly powerfull, but I recommend allowing it, as it makes combat more fun imo.

Originally Posted by Edges

Have you used the Extra Effort rules as written? Were you happy with the results?

Yes, specially spending 1 FP to increase a defense by 2. We also used perks like mighty spell to increase spell damage, and it was common for people doing rapid strikes to spend FP to reduce the penalty in their attacks

Originally Posted by Edges

Do you use the armor from Basic or Low-Tech? Or do you house rule armor?

We use basic, low-tech and fantasy for armor rules. When the rules conflict, we usually use low-tech or fantasy.

Originally Posted by Edges

What, if anything, have you done to address the issue of ST-based weapons penetrating armor too easily? Is it worth it to do in DF?

As you must have realized by now, in our group this problem is even greater! As we are constantly facing enemies that deal 7d+ damage, and you know what, we have survived over 80 sessions like this, so in the end I think its a non issue, specially considering how low the damage of high ST NPCs is without our crazy house rules.

You think you are in danger with your DR 9 full plate being hit by a guy that deals 5d+3 damage ? Well I say be happy its not 13d impaling damage.

Thats not to say that there isnt a problem with the DMG progression from ST, I just dont think its an issue in DF. Theres healing, armor, spells, and whatnots, I just dont think the current damage progression as is, is that cruel with regards to bypassing armor.

In our group, those who can, layer up, im aiming for my character to hit 22 DR someday, at the moment he is at 13 in combat

Originally Posted by Edges

What system(s) have you adopted for point awards? What would you recommend for someone who was raised on the "slow" advancement of AD&D?

5 every session

individual in game earnings, such as a noble raising in status, reputation, pacts, etc. were awarded as bonus points the moment the player got them.

While things such as wealth from a recently acquired gold mine, needs to be bought in points otherwise it comes with equivalent points in disadvantages related to said thing, in the case of the gold mine, corrupt nobles harassing your for your gold, etc. etc.

And a penalty in case the player goes completely against his disadvantages/character concept, altho we are lenient with that when the campaign start and allow people to change their disads if they feel like they would like to roleplay other disads more and only discover it over the course of the game.

Originally Posted by Edges

How have you treated the purchase of enchanted items?

Well in the setting im playing right now, the knowledge of enchanting has been mostly lost, so magical items are sort of like relics, extremelly expensive and not able to be crafted on demand.

Still there are things like magical scrolls, potions, and etc. Those are sold mostly on the biggest cities in the world or with specific NPCs.

You can also find magical weapons, armor, etc. being sold on towns, but they cost a fortune, your best bet is adventuring.

Originally Posted by Edges

Have you used any harsh realism rule options (bleeding, etc.)? How did it go? Did it bog things down too much for DF?

We use hazards, FP lost due to exhaustion and etc. But never used bleeding rules or the advanced injury rules in MA, just seemed like it was not gonna add that much to the game, and it would require a lot more information to be tracked.

Originally Posted by Edges

How has healing gone? Have you used any optional/house rules for it? In actual play, are HP and healing spells the object of resource management that they seem to be intended to be? How do you treat healing potions?

Well, ironically, the biggest resource management we need to do is turns of combat, you can be sure their are the object of resource management, specially when the caster has a skill below 25 and its somewhat costly and hard to do repeated times.

Its great to have healers with 20 HP because they can burn HP to heal others and then heal themselves double.

Well hope it was enough to quench some thirst

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by johndallman

An optional rule from Low-Tech: see Blunt Trauma and Edged Weapons on p102.

Edit: Vicky, it might be worth putting this in the uFAQ, since we routine speak of "edge protection", but searching for that phrase doesn't find the rule.

Either in the uFAQ, or in a "terms frequently used by GURPS GMs and players" list.