[Magic] Magic Items, Magery and Missile Spells

[scc]

I'm using Missile Spells, but this applies to any spell that uses the caster's level of Magery.

OK, Missile Spells allow you to put your Magery Level in energy for the first 3 seconds/turns. If casting from a Magic Item does this use your Magery or that of the person who created it?

If not yours I'm guessing this is recorded as part of the items stats? I only ask because before there's never been a mention of this sort of thing in Magic Item stat blocks

[Phantasm]

I believe the intention was that such magic items are meant to let you cast the spell if you didn't know it, so it uses your Magery level for such things.

This is unlike That Other Game where wands are 50 charges of a spell with the power set by the creator. Mind, in That Other Game, the Craft Wand feat is a good investment because wizards get so few spells per day that they don't get to load up on combat spells, especially at lower levels.

[the_matrix_walker]

I don't think this has ever been explicitly laid out in the RAW...

However since a Magic Item's Power is not influenced by Magery, nor is any other aspect of a Magic item so influenced, I would assume (and as a GM would rule that is was based on the enchanter's Magery.

Rather than have to keep track of this separately, and due to the sheer skill levels involved, I would assume an enchanter's Magery to be (Magic item Power/5)... So for the magic item to function at all, it would have to be Power 15, and thus Magery 3, but if you've got a wand crafted by a master circle with Power 20, it would be effective Magery 4...

However, it would be fair to say that exceeding limits is a privilege for those with Magery higher than 3 who actually know the spell.

[scc]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Rather than have to keep track of this separately, and due to the sheer skill levels involved, I would assume an enchanter's Magery to be (Magic item Power/5)... So for the magic item to function at all, it would have to be Power 15, and thus Magery 3, but if you've got a wand crafted by a master circle with Power 20, it would be effective Magery 4...

Problem with this, it makes Magic Items that function in low and very low mana more powerful because of their higher Power minimums

And for using the users Magery, what happens if they don't have any or only have Magery 0?

[Gnome]

Since these items are all "usable by only mages," I would consider using the users' Magery level to determine maximum level of effect. For a magic item that's usable by anyone, I like the_matrix_walker's solution (posted above).

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by scc

And for using the users Magery, what happens if they don't have any or only have Magery 0?

I'd say that means they can't use it; Magery 1 is already a requirement on knowing the spells themselves for that reason anyway. "Yes you're a mage, but not a magey enough mage to use Ye Rod of Crimson Spheres."

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by scc

Problem with this, it makes Magic Items that function in low and very low mana more powerful because of their higher Power minimums

And for using the users Magery, what happens if they don't have any or only have Magery 0?

The first issue might actually make Items with such Power levels worth paying for (which they aren't right now). So I'm not sure it's really a "problem". :)

The second is part of the unresolved changes resulting from the alterations made to M8issile Spells in 4e. Most of the text involving the standard Magic system dates to a time when Magery 0 did not exist and an individual's level of Magery did not affect how Missile Spells (or any other Spells) worked.

I know of no official answer. My personal assumption is that the level of
Magery an Item uses is "baked" into it at creation. Having Items Enchanted by persons with unusually high Magery gives a reason why such items might exist instead of having a Mage user just spend a cp and learn the spell for himself.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The first issue might actually make Items with such Power levels worth paying for (which they aren't right now). So I'm not sure it's really a "problem". :)

Really? Unless the GM comes right out and states "There are no Low/No Mana Zones" almost everyone in our games that buys magic items pays the premium "just in case".

Unless they simply can't afford it. But even then I've seen characters go back and trade-up when the had the cash.

[CraigR]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Really? Unless the GM comes right out and states "There are no Low/No Mana Zones" almost everyone in our games that buys magic items pays the premium "just in case".

Again, from the GM's standpoint, finding ways to separate PCs from their money is not necessarily a problem. :)

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by scc

And for using the users Magery, what happens if they don't have any or only have Magery 0?

RAW:
No Magery means they can't use "Mage Only" items at all, like (almost) all the Missile spell items. There are a couple of Missile spell items, such as Winged Knife, that aren't limited to mages due to how the spell itself works.

Magery 0 means they can't put in any energy when messing around with (most*) Missile spell items, but they can "use" the items. This is because:

Originally Posted by Magic page 19

Energy cost is the same as for a normal casting of the spell. High Power does not affect this (but the Power spell does – see p. 57).

Combined with:

Originally Posted by Magic page 12

To cast a Missile spell, you must concentrate for one second. At the end of your turn, roll against your skill with the spell. There is no modifier for distance – you are creating a magical missile in your hand. On a success, you may invest one or more points of energy in the spell, to a maximum of a number of energy points equal to your Magery level.

Bold for emphasis.

Note that the entry under using Magic Items seems to allow the Power enchantment to help out by reducing the cost to get the first x dice. So if you have a Fireball Wand with Power 2, this interpretation would let you build a 2d fireball while putting in 0 Energy (the limit for Magery 0). Now whether you want to allow someone to use a Power enchantment every turn spent charging a single use (ie. up to 3x Power for 3 turns charging) or only once per use seems to be left open for interpretation. My initial feelings lean towards only using Power once per cast, but campaign style, setting and party composition could make the other option fair.

*There are a few Missile spells that don't follow the generic Magery limit for Energy spent.