Old-School D&D style game

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

+1. I wasn't all that keen on D&D before my GURPS group ran our dungeon tribute game for Gary Gygax seven years ago, and now I use (some variation on) GURPS DF templates and rules for probably half of the games I run, including my current one, because it's such an effective way to ease people into high-powered violent fantasy, even if they're a little iffy on the rules.

ETA: Obligatory link to Mailanka's excellent Homebrew Monster thread.

I was a huge fan of D&D. Huge. It was my first RPG and it has a special place in my heart. I was in the RPGA and ran Raven's Bluff living campaigns so long...well - it was a long time. I stopped playing D&D when WoTC said "we're doing a new edition" not even a year after I swallowed the need for 3.5. I just quit. Never looked back. My players pretty much did the same. We were over it. Went fully to GURPS. But being able to capture the feel of tunnel-crawling with GURPS didn't occur to us until I demoed it for my local FLGS. They were hooked. Of course, I run DF like I used to run D&D - far more serious than "leveling up." I like to think of it as using Dungeon Fantasy as framework for running "high fantasy." It works quite well and I fully intend to write some on that specific subject since nearly all the other folks who run DF seem to do something very similiar.

[David Johansen]

I was working on a GURPS Lite supplement a couple years ago that was a stripped down action fantasy.

Really, you can do it pretty well with just GURPS Lite and the magic rules from the Basic Set. The trick is avoiding advantage and skill bloat.

Characters should look like this:

Fighter 150 points
ST 15 [50];
DX 13 [60];
IQ 10 [0];
HT 13 [30].

Advantages:
Combat Reflexes [15];
Comfortable Wealth [10].

Disadvantages:
Code of Honor (Soldier's) [-10];
Enemy (Orc Champion) [-10];
Over Confidence [-10].

Skills
Axe / Mace 12 [1];
Brawling 14 [2];
Climbing 12 [1];
Broad Sword 14 [4];
Riding 13 [2];
Shield 14 [2];
Spear 12 [1];
Spear Throwing 13 [1];
Swimming 13 [1].

[simply Nathan]

You can easily simplify from the DF baseline by making a few alterations to the templates too. Forbid options other than the Knight, Swashbuckler, Wizard, and Cleric for pure oldschoolness and make True Faith w/ Turning mandatory on the Cleric template instead of the usual chunk of character points to choose from various Holy abilities. Or go with the Henchmen that turn into those classes (Squire, Skirmisher, Initiate, and the like).

If you want the oldschool races, the list is pretty simple:
One of the lists chosen from

• Humans only
• Human, Dwarf, High Elf, Halfling
• Human, Dwarf, High Elf, Forest Elf, Half-Elf, Halfling, Half-Orc, Gnome

[Carlos]

I really love Dungeon Fantasy. Seriously, I have not enough words to say how much I love it.

My only "complain", however, is that unarmed martial arts don't receive enough love, despite the fact that not only D&D but many other games presents monks that use his bare hands in their whacking way. I may be wrong, but at least for what I recall from my PMs/posts to Kromms about unarmed martial artists, it seems he thinks that such character is a foolish way to be a martial artists. Again, I may be wrong.

I also wish to see how good would be a DF wizard using Ritual Path Magic. I never had the chance to play using that system and I wonder how good is RPM to a setting where magic is everywhere. I really would love to try one day. The only thing is that RPG seems much more complicated (and therefore, less newbie-friend) than the standard magic system. Perhaps "sophisticated" would be a better word.

Just wondering... If those DF templates would be equivalent to level 5th or 7th to D&D, what would be a 1st level D&D character to GURPS? 50 points??? How would you create a monk with that?

A level 20 D&D character would be a 1000 cp GURPS character? Geez, I can't even imagine how would be Elminster in GURPS.

Originally Posted by soulnafein

1) 250 points characters are complex for beginners

That's why there are those templates on Dungeon Fantasy 1. Kromm created them just to make things eaiser. Players just need to customize their characters spending some few points and everything is done. It's not that hard.

[mr beer]

I started running D&D games using 3e GURPS nearly 20 years ago and never looked back. This system is just so much nicer for fantasy ultra-violence than D&D.

Now I'm moving over to GURPS 4e because of course it's better than 3e. Martial Arts adds some great depth to fighters.

I've run everything from 150 point characters, up to 1,000 points and it's always been fun.

I just ran Expedition to the Barrier Peaks and it was great BTW.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Run, not walk, to the D&D Conversion page at the GURPS Repository.

My personal guideline for converting D&D levels to GURPS CPs is:

GURPS CP = 25 x (D&D level) + 75

Thus, a 1st-level D&D character would be 100 points, a typical "heroic" GURPS character with 150 points would be level 3, while a starting Dungeon Fantasy character would be level 7.

Sounds about right to me.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

GURPS CP = 25 x (D&D level) + 75

Thus, a 1st-level D&D character would be 100 points, a typical "heroic" GURPS character with 150 points would be level 3, while a starting Dungeon Fantasy character would be level 7.

Having run quite a bit at low (125-160+ so far) point levels, characters are weak. I'd call 125 points to be 1st level, which dovetails nicely with the templates in DF15. Lots of foes will swamp them faster, but their magic comes back faster, though the limitations in the healing spells will slow them like in D&D.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Carlos

Well, it's your game, but... Why just don't use DF 1?

Originally Posted by soulnafein

Obviously Dungeon Fantasy came to mind but two things put me off it in this situation:

1) 250 points characters are complex for beginners
2) Old school 1st level characters aren't that complex

That's pretty much why. If they're new to GURPS, the tactical combat might overwhelm them at first. He should stick to the Combat Lite chapter at the end of Characters for the first session or two, then add back in options.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Having run quite a bit at low (125-160+ so far) point levels, characters are weak. I'd call 125 points to be 1st level, which dovetails nicely with the templates in DF15. Lots of foes will swamp them faster, but their magic comes back faster, though the limitations in the healing spells will slow them like in D&D.

While low point value characters are weak, so are 1st level D&D characters (except maybe in 4E). At 3rd level (150 points in my scheme) they stop being utterly fragile, and at 5th level (200 points) they start being fairly tough and competent.

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Carlos

Just wondering... If those DF templates would be equivalent to level 5th or 7th to D&D, what would be a 1st level D&D character to GURPS? 50 points??? How would you create a monk with that?

A 1st-level D&D character could be anywhere from -100 to 150 points depending on class. Or even way higher with good rolls for high ability scores.

A first-level D&D monk in GURPS could just be Karate(DX)[4]-11, 2-4 points each in a handful of melee weapon skills like Staff and Tonfa, Trained by a Master[35], and Disciplines of Faith(Chi Rituals)[-10]. Just look at the lenses in DF3 and think "apply this to an average joe off the street" rather than "apply this to an accomplished super-competent DF character". Or it could be the full monstrosity in DF1.

A first-level wizard might easily have only Magery 0[5], one of Knife, Thrown Weapon(dart or knife), Shortsword, Broadsword, Axe/Mace, or Staff at DX, one spell known at (IQ)[4]-10, and the Vows: Knives, Darts, and Clubs Only[-5], Do Not Wear Armor[-15], and Do Not Use Shields[-5].

A first-level fighter would likely have almost every weapon skill at DX (everything other than weapons deemed "exotic", all low-tech weapons, all weapons ever, all things that are remotely related to killing people, or four+INT bonus distinct proficiencies depending on edition).

Really we're a lot better off recreating the spirit and flavor of the D&D archetypes in GURPS than we are trying to port them over on a mechanical level. I do think 250 is crazy high as a starting point, but I always was one for preferring to play D&D as first-level characters and generally got bored once we started hitting level 4 or so.