[Low-Tech/High-Tech] Looting and Improvising arms and armour in Victorian London

[DanHoward]

The main issue is coverage. You can use books like trauma plates in modern body armour. They would be very good for protecting your vitals but impractical for all-round coverage.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

How about a coat of pockets with books in the pockets?

Don't forget a Bible over the heart.

I had seriously thought that sewing pockets on leather coats or greatcoats of any thick material, really, could be done fairly quickly if it didn't have to look nice or be too finely stiched. And in those pockets you could put scavenged metal, preferably plates of wrought iron.

Wrapping over this with iron or steel chains of varying thickness, possibly stiffened with nails or bars, was about the limit which I could see happening in three to five hours. A modified horse harness over the shoulders to support the heavy chains over the upper torso would be great, but Father MacManus was prepared to accept -1 to DX for the improvised get-up and quite a bit of armour weight in exchange for decent protection for those areas which could reasonably be covered without too much work.

If you recall, his previous protection was some 80 lbs. of oak table suspended by a thick improvised harness of rope over his shoulders, and several overcoats as padding, for -2 DX and DR 4 (Semi-ablative) for the Chest(F) area and DR 1* against cut for the rest of his torso.

Any improvement on that would be great. An actual thick plate of iron put in a pocket over most of his vitals on the front would be excellent. Chains, nails, bars or other improvised metal implements that could augment the heavy leather and/or canvas that cover the rest of his Chest hit location for a DR 3 or so against cut would be a perfect addition, if possible.

It is entirely expected that thrusts to the sides and the lower part of the torso will have to contend with only DR 1*, at the very best DR 2*, from layered leather and padding.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

The main issue is coverage. You can use books like trauma plates in modern body armour. They would be very good for protecting your vitals but impractical for all-round coverage.

We've only got five hours to design this stuff, scrounge the materials, fabricate and assemble the armour, and wait for any adhesives to set. All-round coverage might not be achievable.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

The main issue is coverage. You can use books like trauma plates in modern body armour. They would be very good for protecting your vitals but impractical for all-round coverage.

Originally Posted by Agemegos

We've only got five hours to design this stuff, scrounge the materials, fabricate and assemble the armour, and wait for any adhesives to set. All-round coverage might not be achievable.

That's a given. The ideal for Father MacManus is something that will be useful against a substantial possibility of likely hits, primarily the Vitals from the front, as high a proportion of the Chest from the front as practical and the shins and forearms.

DR 1 coverage for the feet and lower legs is absolutely critical for everyone and DR 2 and even DR 3 against cuts within biting range from the ground would not go amiss, but if there is no time to fix chains, bars, nails or other reinforcements to heavy leather boots, then stout mudlark or navvy boots on their own will do.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I had seriously thought that sewing pockets on leather coats or greatcoats of any thick material, really, could be done fairly quickly if it didn't have to look nice or be too finely stiched. And in those pockets you could put scavenged metal, preferably plates of wrought iron.

Yes, it can. Honestly, if you're starting with strong leather, you can probably rivet the pocket(s) on faster than sewing it, once the peices are cut. That can be fobbed off on an apprentice and leave the skilled people to do other things. The rivets will also make attatchement for chains wrapped round the torso (assuming that we have that arc welder mentioned earlier.). Over top of the chains, weld on at least 4 pieces of barstock veritcally oriented, front and back, then attach those to chains over the shoulders to take some of the weight. Rivet chains onto some heavy leather work gloves (ideally elbow-length), in loops around the arm, then use those as attachment points for more barstock. Do something similar with boots for the legs. Your upper arms and head will be uncovered, and your thighs kind of marginal, but it should keep your vitals intact and stop things knawing on your shins.
ETA: You might even be able to rivet short lengths of chain across the backs of the hands and tops of the feet; they wouldn't be very thick ones, but an extra point of DR always helps. Having your hands wrapped in metal is also of benefit if you find it necessary to punch any cultists or mutants or whatall.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

Yes, it can. Honestly, if you're starting with strong leather, you can probably rivet the pocket(s) on faster than sewing it, once the peices are cut. That can be fobbed off on an apprentice and leave the skilled people to do other things.

How much does the apprentice need to know?

Because there are a fifty to a hundred seamstresses for every blacksmith in the neighbourhood.

Originally Posted by Dalillama

Yes, The rivets will also make attatchement for chains wrapped round the torso (assuming that we have that arc welder mentioned earlier.). Over top of the chains, weld on at least 4 pieces of barstock veritcally oriented, front and back, then attach those to chains over the shoulders to take some of the weight. Rivet chains onto some heavy leather work gloves (ideally elbow-length), in loops around the arm, then use those as attachment points for more barstock. Do something similar with boots for the legs.

Just so.

Originally Posted by Dalillama

Yes Your upper arms and head will be uncovered, and your thighs kind of marginal, but it should keep your vitals intact and stop things knawing on your shins.

The player had no misconceptions about covering his head, upper arms or thighs.

Originally Posted by Dalillama

ETA: You might even be able to rivet short lengths of chain across the backs of the hands and tops of the feet; they wouldn't be very thick ones, but an extra point of DR always helps. Having your hands wrapped in metal is also of benefit if you find it necessary to punch any cultists or mutants or whatall.

Exactly. Father MacManus would like that.

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by Icelander

How much does the apprentice need to know?

Literally nothing. I've defaulted cold copper rivets with leather before. Very easy, didn't know a thing about leather working or metal smithing at the time. Just need the leather, a punch, a length of thick copper wire, a way to cut it and a way to hammer it down. Those seamstresses could do it easily if they weren't worried about unholy terrors roaming the streets.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Icelander

How much does the apprentice need to know?.

It's monkey work. Anyone who can swing a hammer can do it just fine

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Where are you going to get duct tape from? The very first adhesive patch was developed in 1901 by Oscar Troplowitz. Rolls of adhesive tape came even later.

Well, I was actually referring to what I've done, personally, which was to fold up a newspaper(8 or so double pages, with 1 full page), which gave me a rough rectangle about 8" square or so, and about a half inch thick. I taped each square shut, then taped two squares together(actually, I did one panel thickness, two panel thickness, and four panel thickness. That's from around a half an inch to two inchs of paper). Then I took'em outside, hung them up on a stick, and shot'em with my shotgun(WHAT?! That's one of the reasons I bought the thing, so I can shoot stuff). And the buckshot tore through the single and double thicknesses, but not the quad pieces.

But when I tried them on a dummy(old pillowcase stuffed with yet more news paper), the double thickness held up pretty good. It didn't last more than four or five blasts of buck, but I figure that armor that can be improvised out of paper that will protect you from a few hits is pretty decent, for maybe a half hour to an hour of work, and with readily available resources.

For pre-duct-tape means of connecting it together, I would probably just wrap it in cloth, then rivet the cloth to a leather backing. Shouldn't be too difficult, nor time consuming.

Edit: Also, "Stop buckshot" doesn't mean "bounce it like jellybeans", it means "stop it from penetrating you so much that it kills you". Semi ablative is probably a good way to go, as it allows you to give a fairly heft DR of 4, but it will quickly break down over prolonged fighting. I have no illusions about paper armor allowing one to take shotgun shots to the chest like I was superman. But it could be the difference between a lethal wound that penetrates deep into my torso, or a shallower wound that doesn't hit anything vital.

Remember, a single pellet is about as energetic as a .32 acp, so they don't exactly have great penetration. The difference is that a good shot can land three or four pellets into you, which increases the odds of a vital wound. But they are nto particularly energetic.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Culture20

Literally nothing. I've defaulted cold copper rivets with leather before. Very easy, didn't know a thing about leather working or metal smithing at the time. Just need the leather, a punch, a length of thick copper wire, a way to cut it and a way to hammer it down. Those seamstresses could do it easily if they weren't worried about unholy terrors roaming the streets.

Originally Posted by Dalillama

It's monkey work. Anyone who can swing a hammer can do it just fine

There are also a lot of costermongers, shop boys, factory hands and day laborers. Not to mention a few navvies, mudlarks, dustmen, brick-layers, coachmen, dog breakers, rat-catchers, bully boys, pimps, barkeeps and longshoremen.

Some fifty men are likely to form foraging parties and need enough DR for feet, lower legs and gloves to contend with fiendish rats, feral demonic wildcats and hell hounds. I expect that the Jewish survivors had already equipped their own foragers with good sturdy boots, gloves and cloth padding in the first day, before meeting the PCs, and considering that Otto Hirschsohn has made actual armour for street-fighters before*, it is likely that he has been at work for a whole day already making either armour or weapons, whichever the foragers require most urgently.

The PC hope to recruit some thirty hard cases as fighters from among Mr. Frankton's gang of Swell Coves, his considerable range of acquaintanceship among neighbouring gangs and the nephews and friends of Mr. Isaac Aisenstadt, who has served in the Tsar's armies and has some small experience with criminal elements from Odessa. These will need firearms, which the PCs have undertaken to procure (somehow) and it would be good if they could have some armour as well. At the very least anti-vermin boots and leggings, with more coverage and DR being nice, particularly if they can get some protection against claws, knives and bites for forearms and chest without it hindering them unduly.

*Purely because the intellectual exercise interested him, not from any base motives.