Is there a good article/post on story ideas that work in RPGs versus film/literature

[lachimba]

Im just thinking about plot elements that work or dont work in RPGs versus film, television or literature. Ideally with some ideas on how to change them enough to use them.

My thoughts are that many ideas in fiction just dont work in RPGs often enough because scripts are redrafted and edited dozens of timeswhile a homebrew adventure is often enough not even playtested before use.

GURPS Mysteries went through a lot of Mystery plots that work in RPGs versus other stories. Is there anything similar for other genres?

[simply Nathan]

Any plot element that relies on the protagonists being stupid. Each PC is being controlled by a player who, in all likelihood, is as clever as the GM; collectively, the mental resources of a party of player characters are greater than those of the Game Master.

Any plot element relying on the protagonists knowing what to do without being prompted. Players might be smart, but the majority of them aren't psychic. If the game master has a single specific solution in mind for a puzzle the chances are basically nonexistant that the players will figure it out, even if the GM goes out of his way to leave blatant clues.

I personally don't think anything relying on a plot twist or carefully scripted events planned for its future would work very well, not without robbing the players and their characters of investment in the narrative.

[whswhs]

It's difficult to dramatize a caper plot. I've run such scenarios, and they were tricky.

On one hand, a caper involves intricate planning and preparation that is known to the heroes. But it all takes place offstage, so it's not known to the audience till they see the plan being carried out.

But on the other hand, the players are the audience, but they're also the planners. If they don't do the planning ahead of time, there is no plan. If they do the planning ahead of time, and it goes off without a hitch, playing out the caper is an anticlimax; it's hard to have any tension. If it runs into major snags and creates tension, it undermines the sense that the heroes are really good at what they do.

Bill Stoddard

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by whswhs

... the players are the audience, but they're also the planners. If they don't do the planning ahead of time, there is no plan. If they do the planning ahead of time, and it goes off without a hitch, playing out the caper is an anticlimax; it's hard to have any tension. If it runs into major snags and creates tension, it undermines the sense that the heroes are really good at what they do.

I once managed to square that circle by having a really good plan that was executed offstage, while the play session was the distraction for the opponents. It's not a general solution, because it needs the players to know the world very well and make both a plan and a cover, but it worked well when we did it.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by whswhs

It's difficult to dramatize a caper plot. I've run such scenarios, and they were tricky.

On one hand, a caper involves intricate planning and preparation that is known to the heroes. But it all takes place offstage, so it's not known to the audience till they see the plan being carried out.

I have some ideas for how to handle that based on character skill rather than player skill, and which can potentially surprise the players, useable for both heists and for long cons (the two main "flavours" of capers), but only time will tell if they're actually particularly good.

[RogerBW]

Originally Posted by whswhs

It's difficult to dramatize a caper plot. I've run such scenarios, and they were tricky.

As far as I can see there are two canonical answers to this.

One is to have an abstract preparation system (of which there are two in Pyramid #3/53) which lets players retroactively have prepared for the unexpected. Which can break role-playing a bit.

The other is to say "all right, you successfully prepared for the stuff you knew about: the patrols, the moving laser beams, the safe. And that's all dealt with, no further rolls required. But now here are unexpected challenges, and let's see how you deal with them".

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by RogerBW

One is to have an abstract preparation system (of which there are two in Pyramid #3/53) which lets players retroactively have prepared for the unexpected. Which can break role-playing a bit.

Yup. My suggested solution is similar to that, except that instead of it being via extremley purpose-specific traits that some characters just happen to have, without us knowing why they have them, the party (or squad, or fellowship) uses more general-purpose learnable Skills to generate Plant Points.

These Plan Points are then used during the long con, or the heist, to retroactvely have anticipated or otherwise prepared for the encountered challenges.

And since the Plan: Long Con or Plan: Heist skill roll is usually done against an extremely high Roll Difficulty, the characters will have to scout out the target first, spy on him, engage in social engineering, dumpster diving, and that isn't meant to be abstracted. Instead it is played out in detail, and each such preparatory action reduces the Roll Difficulty, based on how much was accomplished.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

And since the Plan: Long Con or Plan: Heist skill roll is usually done against an extremely high Roll Difficulty, the characters will have to scout out the target first, spy on him, engage in social engineering, dumpster diving, and that isn't meant to be abstracted. Instead it is played out in detail, and each such preparatory action reduces the Roll Difficulty, based on how much was accomplished.

I'm thinking that, in GURPS, you could somehow adapt the Monster Hunters investigation rules, except instead of finding the culprit behind an event, you're finding the way best way to pull off the event.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by RogerBW

As far as I can see there are two canonical answers to this.

One is to have an abstract preparation system (of which there are two in Pyramid #3/53) which lets players retroactively have prepared for the unexpected. Which can break role-playing a bit.

The other is to say "all right, you successfully prepared for the stuff you knew about: the patrols, the moving laser beams, the safe. And that's all dealt with, no further rolls required. But now here are unexpected challenges, and let's see how you deal with them".

I suppose if a caper is a one or two time thing you are planning you could start media in res with the pcs being caught in the vault, having their employer ambush them, having their get away car explode or something.

Then you revert to x time before and explicity allow them to prepare for that eventuality so long as that opening scene occurs.

I think that would only be fun once which probably explains why capers are usually in books or movies and not 22 episode tv series.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by whswhs

If they do the planning ahead of time, and it goes off without a hitch, playing out the caper is an anticlimax; it's hard to have any tension.

Which may or may not be a problem, depending on your players. My group likes it when a plan comes together . . . it's a bit like "winning," and the payoff for all the tension in the planning stages. And it's entirely possible for planning to be very, very tense indeed. If you have to carry out a bunch of thefts and black-market deals to procure the necessary gear, send the face character into the lion's den in disguise to acquire some passwords, clean up evidence that you're planning something, maybe even silence an inconveniently nosy NPC, then you have dozens of chances to compromise the plan, no one of which is immediately fatal to the adventure. But then the actual caper can be smooth, proving the heroes are as good as they claim to be.

Again, that does depend on the players. Some people believe that tension is needed in every sub-plot and game session; some people do not. I happen to game with the latter kind of people, so they actually have more fun when all their characters' hard work actually has a picture-perfect result.