Dungeon Fantasy and Sword&Sorcery

[Kromm]

Classic S&S has two things that define it as a distinctive subset of fantasy:

1. Swords. This doesn't mean the weapons called "swords," but rather swords as a symbol of personal combat, which in turn represents personal action in general. Tales may well have the window dressing of empires and kings and politics, but the focus of the events – what the protagonists actually go out and do – is burglary, carousing, fighting, stalking, surviving, etc. in person. In many of the classics, the heroes will achieve something impressive in the name of some cause, only to see that forgotten in the very next story, because they apparently spent/lost all the money and burned all their bridges. So it's back to climbing up more towers, slaying more foes, stealing more jewels, drinking more ale . . . Epic events function as scenery, in the spirit of, say, Odysseus (sure, there were great wars going on and he was a man of social import, but the stories are about him fighting and tricking individual foes, and personally surviving scary situations).

2. Sorcery. This doesn't mean Fireball spells and magic swords in the hands of the heroes. Rather, it means evil human sorcerers, sinister and supernatural nonhumans, and horrific monsters with magical powers. It nearly always symbolizes the opposition, not resources wielded by the protagonists. If the heroes even have magic, it's minor, unreliable, and/or a source of more trouble than good. Consider the Gray Mouser, who was formerly the apprentice of a wizard, but whose magical powers are rarely helpful, and who currently has Sheelba of the Eyeless Face as a patron, which mostly means weirdness and annoying errands.

As far as DF goes, it's ideal for the Swords part. It already casts out politics and kings and empires to focus on heroic individual actions, and is already essentially episodic, with the heroes constantly questing after new treasures because apparently, the last bunch wasn't enough. It's a little forced for the Sorcery part, as it tends to make magic-working worthwhile as a primary profession and put magic items, nonhumans, and so on into the realm of the heroes rather than unpleasant NPCs.

To use DF for S&S, narrow the starting professions down to assassin, barbarian, innkeeper, knight, martial artist, scout, swashbuckler, thief, and maybe holy warrior and ninja. If someone wants to be a "wizard," point the player at the scholar or ask them to sacrifice 50 points from their primary template to buy the <whatever>-wizard lens. All PCs have to be human. Nonhumans and dedicated spellcasters are NPCs, usually unfriendly, and often evil . . . but you can still get your money's worth from the supplements for them, because you'll need enemies. All of the monsters and most of the rules for game play (hiking, sneaking, traps, etc.) work "as is." Finally, nobody can start with magic items, and there will be little to no magical treasure.

[Anders]

Ok, thanks. Healing will be an issue, though. Hmm...

ETA: As for Swords, there's a poem by Swedish 19th-century poet Erik Gustaf Geijer the attitude admirably - Vikingen (the Viking). It has very little to do with actual Vikings, but it does describe how he manages to get crowned of not-important-land. After one winter he smashes his crown and leaves, never to return. Why? Because it was so boring! They asked him to collect taxes and stuff. Mediate disputes between sheep-farmers. Or do you herd sheep? Too boring to remember...

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Anders

Ok, thanks. Healing will be an issue, though. Hmm...

You can do a bunch of things with existing GURPS building blocks, to achieve a much subtler kind of healing that the one provided by the Healing advantage or the various spells from GURPS Magic.

[fifiste]

Extra life with gimmick - you wake up to discover to have been healed back to health/life by mysterious stranger/forces etc.
(Put in a clever and or horrifying bargain perhaps for a cost for your new life)

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I'd imagine a lot of the templates will work almost as-is in the more serious S&S genre, although you'll probably want more investment in "background" skills than is expected. You might be better off starting your characters out using the 125-point Henchman templates and giving them an extra 25 or so points for fleshing out an actual character instead of a mere murder-hobo (if you want a more epic feel, go ahead and use the full 250 point delver templates and give them 50 "fleshing out" points). Magic users may be unavailable, or may only be available as a lens on one of the more mundane classes. Mundane gear from the books is probably fine, but magical gear is probably a no-go.

Are there actually any good Lenses for "Dabbles in Magic" for DF?

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by Anders

What is the difference between these two? And can I use the money spent on DF if I want a S&S campaign?

I don't think you're asking what the difference between dungeon crawl and sword-and-sorcery sub-genres of the fantasy genre. If so, my answer is not very much.

If you're asking if Dungeon Fantasy supplements work well with a sword-and sorcery game ran with GURPS, the answer is yes! DF 8 is great for treasure and DF Monsters is a good source for inspiration. DF 2 distills and collects a lot of rules for running a good fantasy game. DF 3 has a lot of templates for races, though there will be a tiny amount of conversion to a more generic flavor of GURPS.

DF just standardizes the game a little with its templates. It also abbreviates almost anything not happening in a dungeon to some degree—probably the largest rules departures center on that fact, and they aren't very extreme at all.

If you're on the edge, I'd suggest picking up DF 1 and DF 2 and giving them a read. I bet you'll be glad you did!

I didn't like the idea of DF at all until I took the plunge one day. Now, it's all I play.