[LT] No-steel-pocalypse! Lifespan of iron & steel equipment?

[Seneschal]

So, I'm currently GM-ing a low-fantasy-bordering-on-horror campaign inspired by Dark Souls. A thousand years ago, the main culture of the setting were the recipients of a divine boon that made them amazing blacksmiths (i.e. in their hands, iron had the melting point of lead), so they easily made steel weapons and late TL4 plate, even if their furnaces are TL1, 2 at most.

That boon is due to end in a month, and I was wondering just what kind of chaos would ensue. Assume that the biggest portion of their economy is based on metalworking. How soon would steel need maintenance which could not be done anymore? What components of infrastructure used iron or steel at TL4, and would now become irreplaceable? What adjustments would need to occur if an entire culture would have to switch to softer metals overnight?

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Seneschal

How soon would steel need maintenance which could not be done anymore?

Metal items generally require much lower heat for maintenance (pounding out dents and the like). Anything which reaches melting temperatures...well, tends to melt the piece, which pretty much means you're starting over again. Most maintenance is simply stuff like sharpening, cleaning, and oiling, which generally don't need heating at all.

Originally Posted by Seneschal

What components of infrastructure used iron or steel at TL4, and would now become irreplaceable?

Iron/steel structural members are minimal at TL4. Depending on which flavor of TL4 you're using, there might be big chains used in suspension bridges (not used in Europe, but were used in China) and maybe to reenforce some kinds of structural members in elaborately vaulted buildings. Existing ones can probably be maintained reasonably well, but new architecture won't be able to freely incorporate such items.

Originally Posted by Seneschal

What adjustments would need to occur if an entire culture would have to switch to softer metals overnight?

Assuming Earth-like conditions, the supply of new metals plummets overnight, and you're stuck with copper alloys and lead. The problem isn't with hardness (good bronze is about as hard as reasonable-quality iron; indeed, early iron was worse than bronze), but with supply. There's much, much less copper than iron. With the barest trickle of new production, metal prices increase sharply, and it just gets worse as existing iron items slowly break and otherwise wear out from use. I wouldn't care to guess how fast that'll happen, though.

[ADAXL]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Iron/steel structural members are minimal at TL4. Depending on which flavor of TL4 you're using, there might be big chains used in suspension bridges (not used in Europe, but were used in China) and maybe to reenforce some kinds of structural members in elaborately vaulted buildings. Existing ones can probably be maintained reasonably well, but new architecture won't be able to freely incorporate such items.

I basically agree with Turhan's Bey Company, but there is the problem of maintenance. Many TL4 structures need constant repair, and that requires metal tools.

PS: That "ending of the boon", how does it work? Do people know in advance? Can they prepare by developing other technologies? If the main culture received to boon, what about the others? Can the people simply hire some engineers from another culture and shift to bronze?

How will people cope with the end of the boon mentally and culturally? Will people simply shrug and continue with work with other technology or will there be religious war, mass panic and hysteria?

[Nereidalbel]

Just one question: has any sort of alchemist (magical or historical) discovered aluminum? If yes, they may just be able to create the purest iron possible.

If not, corrosion is dependent on environmental factors, meaning those living in deserts will have steel much longer than those near the sea.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

If not, corrosion is dependent on environmental factors, meaning those living in deserts will have steel much longer than those near the sea.

Which could have a noticable impact on ships and long distance sailing. If ship construction is similar to real world TL3-4, there should be a decent amount of nails being used to hold them together. This would make sea travel more expensive and dangerous, do you really want to risk a week or two on a ship that may not have been properly maintained? Or do you go with an unproven concept that may fall apart in a strong breeze? Or can you reach your destination by land, even if that would take longer than by ship?

At least until some non-iron/steel using way of building long distance cargo holding ships has been discovered. But until then, most trade and travel will probably be across land with shorter trips to cross unavoidable water.

Any civilization that relies heavily on sailing could easily fall apart entirely.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

If ship construction is similar to real world TL3-4, there should be a decent amount of nails being used to hold them together.

At Earth TL 3-4, it was common to use copper nails or wooden pegs ("treenails") simply because iron or steel nails corrode so fast in seawater. I haven't seen anything in this thread to indicate that the culture has stainless steel or other means of comprehensively protecting steel from corrosion.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

Which could have a noticable impact on ships and long distance sailing. If ship construction is similar to real world TL3-4, there should be a decent amount of nails being used to hold them together. This would make sea travel more expensive and dangerous, do you really want to risk a week or two on a ship that may not have been properly maintained? Or do you go with an unproven concept that may fall apart in a strong breeze? Or can you reach your destination by land, even if that would take longer than by ship?

At least until some non-iron/steel using way of building long distance cargo holding ships has been discovered. But until then, most trade and travel will probably be across land with shorter trips to cross unavoidable water.

Any civilization that relies heavily on sailing could easily fall apart entirely.

Eh, there's decent evidence of trans-Atlantic travel well before steel became a thing. Non-iron nails can do their job with a decent amount of corrosion, but, iron swords and armor will become useless in short order.

[PseudoFenton]

So in the last thousand years, noone has developed better furnaces? Despite knowing what hotter temperatures could do when working iron? Especially when there are seemingly rival cultures who didn't receive such a boon?

It seems likely that the power exchange simply moves to the few who have bothered to find alternative methods for iron/steel working (remember, that they would've have the benefit of steel tools and goods to this this, and a good knowledge of the medium, which makes things a lot easier). Or that alternatives are very quickly financed in an attempt to recapture what has been lost.

[Seneschal]

Thanks for the prompt and detailed response, guys! I really appreciate it.

Originally Posted by ADAXL

PS: That "ending of the boon", how does it work? Do people know in advance? Can they prepare by developing other technologies? If the main culture received to boon, what about the others? Can the people simply hire some engineers from another culture and shift to bronze?

How will people cope with the end of the boon mentally and culturally? Will people simply shrug and continue with work with other technology or will there be religious war, mass panic and hysteria?

They have no idea. Until recently, they believed themselves to be the entirety of mankind, not really knowing how big the world is or if distant lands are populated (spoiler: they are). Aside from advanced metalwork and some ritual magic, they are very much an early bronze-age society, have scarce written records, underdeveloped transportation technology and no contact with other offshoots of humanity. Iron also has a very spiritual aspect to them (those fantasy-iron properties like "wards off evil and blocks magic" are caused by the boon, and will stop working shortly). The fact that iron's properties are a temporary blessing, and not the natural state of things, have just been uncovered by the campaign's protagonists.

Originally Posted by PseudoFenton

So in the last thousand years, noone has developed better furnaces? Despite knowing what hotter temperatures could do when working iron? Especially when there are seemingly rival cultures who didn't receive such a boon?

The original recipients of the boon were a tribal bronze-age culture with mostly oral traditions. Their attempts at empire-building, for which the boon was originally intended, were met with several catastrophes and a wholesale exile to the remote continent where the campaign takes place. Lax timekeeping and lack of historiography ensured they would repeat their mistakes. No one remembers anything about a "boon" and merely consider iron to just behave that way naturally.

Originally Posted by PseudoFenton

It seems likely that the power exchange simply moves to the few who have bothered to find alternative methods for iron/steel working (remember, that they would've have the benefit of steel tools and goods to this this, and a good knowledge of the medium, which makes things a lot easier). Or that alternatives are very quickly financed in an attempt to recapture what has been lost.

I was wondering about that. How early did alternative ways of smelting iron or making steel exist? Like, crucibles for example. Would they be plausible for a TL1-2 society? Would some crackpot inventor still be able to make small amounts of steel that way?

Originally Posted by malloyd

Properly cared for steel tools that don't see a lot of use can last a century - half of my hand tools belonged to my father and are 50 or 60 years old - so the crisis isn't immediate.

Heavily used stuff will wear out faster, but most craftsmen who are well equipped now will still have usable gear in a decade or more. Your economy isn't going to crash overnight, or even this year, though the long term outlook is pretty poor. Nobody *new* can enter a profession that requires steel tools - your economy can't expand and is going to start contracting with a half life of decades in those industries, which is most of them.

The first really major crisis is probably plows - TL4 food surpluses are not large, so every farmer whose efficiency drops because his plow breaks mean somebody somewhere starves, and plowshares are worked pretty hard. Next year is probably OK, particularly if the planting season is already over, but if you don't solve this one pretty fast the year after that will be a hard year and half your population is going to be dead in a decade.

Good! My intention was for the transition to be near-apocalyptic, and a food shortage will do quite nicely for a violent unraveling of society.

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Just one question: has any sort of alchemist (magical or historical) discovered aluminum? If yes, they may just be able to create the purest iron possible.

If not, corrosion is dependent on environmental factors, meaning those living in deserts will have steel much longer than those near the sea.

So far, I've shied away from "magic as art/science" thing that typical fantasy settings have. There are no studious wizards or alchemical entrepreneurs. We use Path/Book ritual magic, and it usually involves dealings with otherworldly entities, so practitioners are seers, priests, bards, old crones in the woods, etc.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Seneschal

I was wondering about that. How early did alternative ways of smelting iron or making steel exist? Like, crucibles for example. Would they be plausible for a TL1-2 society? Would some crackpot inventor still be able to make small amounts of steel that way?

Crucible steel likely goes back to the Third Century BC in Sri Lanka and southern India. Note well that you need iron, already smelted from its ore, to make crucible steel.