[DF][GM Advice] Heart Attacks

[Stripe]

Question for the Dungeon Fantasy game masters out there. How do you guys handle heart attacks?

Say a character is the victim of an Affliction (Heart Attack).

Must the Physician or First Aid skill be TL 7 to resuscitate? Or, is this a certain death in HT/3 minutes? DF2, p. 13 states: "Assume that dungeon fantasy is TL3 for the purposes of first aid."

What about magic; could Minor, Major and Great Healing be used to fix the situation? It's not really a loss of HP that's the trouble, though. For one, the victim is also at -1xFP, but even if raised to full HP and FP, I don't think it negates the fact that the actual issue is a heart attack. Not sure.

Here's the definition of heart attack I use: "An acute myocardial infarction, also known as a heart attack, is when a blood vessel within the heart suddenly becomes blocked, usually by a blood clot, which stops the flow of oxygenated-blood to that part of the heart. If the blood flow is not quickly restored, the muscle in that area of the heart begins to die."

Could one consider the healing spell to "unblock" the clog? If so, what then? The character jumps up, healthy as a horse (once FP is restored)?

That doesn't sound quite right to me, either. But, magic is magic.

I do think Suspended Animation would stop the character from dying, but what's the fix in the meantime? Anything? Resurrection? ;)

Normally, I don't seek advice, only cold, hard RAW on a matter when I come to the forums, but I think this is one area that might be more up to a GM than anything.

Thanks!

[Ulzgoroth]

What, in DF, uses Affliction (Heart Attack)? My first suggestion for how to handle heart attacks would be to not have them be relevant.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Question for the Dungeon Fantasy game masters out there. How do you guys handle heart attacks?

I'd allow Stop Bleeding to stabilize you as if a heart attack was a Mortal Wound. Which it is. That's 10 energy to cast. First Aid wouldn't be enough.

[Ulzgoroth]

I would add that the text of the Heart Attack condition (Basic Set p429) is perfectly clear on the condition after resucitation: at best you're at -FP and 0 HP. Most horses are rather healthier than that. Of course, the right spells could kick you back to full FP and HP pretty quick, in principle.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

What, in DF, uses Affliction (Heart Attack)? My first suggestion for how to handle heart attacks would be to not have them be relevant.

Off the top of my head, the Death spell from Dungeon Magic.

I allow Esoteric Medicine to work here. In Dungeon Fantasy that stuff is supposed to work and it gives characters with it (clerics, druids, and holy warriors) something cool to do with the skill (that otherwise generally doesn't have a lot adventuring uses except as a default for First Aid; the rules for TL3 medical treatment aren't ever going to come up when the cleric can just cast Healing spells on the patient).

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

I'd allow Stop Bleeding to stabilize you as if a heart attack was a Mortal Wound. Which it is. That's 10 energy to cast. First Aid wouldn't be enough.

This was my first thought as well. I'd also allow an Esoteric Medicine roll, though probably at a penalty of -4 or so, to encourage Clerics to invest in the spell instead of relying on the skill.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

I'm fine with a penalized Esoteric Medicine roll, too. I'd probably go -5 or higher, because it should be hard to stop it without magic, and bonuses from kits, etc. aren't uncommon.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

I'm fine with a penalized Esoteric Medicine roll, too. I'd probably go -5 or higher, because it should be hard to stop it without magic, and bonuses from kits, etc. aren't uncommon.

Using the rules for Weird Treatments, Dungeons p. 14 it can definitely have penalties and should take a full day, besides (which in this case I think it means that the character remains stable but unconscious as long as the cleric continues to treat him, but any interruptions count against the HT/3 minutes).

[Kromm]

See also the Resuscitate spell here. And in the interest of honesty, my latest (nameless) writing project is going to change that some in its "official" form.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

I'd allow Stop Bleeding to stabilize you as if a heart attack was a Mortal Wound. Which it is. That's 10 energy to cast. First Aid wouldn't be enough.

I wouldn't have a big problem with allowing it, but I'd note that technically, Heart Attack is a Mortal Condition rather than a Mortal Wound.

I'd say that anything that afflicts conditions in a setting should assume the knowledge to reverse or heal that condition. If the Death spell is "secret" knowledge, then the Resuscitation technique is probably also going to be hard to come by. Giving your characters some expensive cure or penalized chance to avoid death seems reasonable in such a case.