Why are Contacts so Expensive? - Page 5

Dinadon · 06-21-2014, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danukian

Most (If not all) of the templates in MH3 list Contacts and/or Allies in their standard advantage package. So at least 2 in DF15 off the top of my head (Shamanic Initiate for sure and I believe Agent), so I'm not sure where you are getting that rule.

I don't know about Contacts, but Allies specifically states that only PCs pay for NPC allies. PCs don't pay for other PCs, NPCs don't pay for other NPCs. The general exception is for Summonable/Conjurable allies since they significantly change the nature of the trait.

Oh, and I think you meant MH4, not MH3.

vicky_molokh · 06-21-2014, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinadon

I don't know about Contacts, but Allies specifically states that only PCs pay for NPC allies. PCs don't pay for other PCs, NPCs don't pay for other NPCs. The general exception is for Summonable/Conjurable allies since they significantly change the nature of the trait.

Oh, and I think you meant MH4, not MH3.

Why are we holding onto recursive Allies so much? If we have the Mob Boss or the President as an Ally (or Patron), we're interested in their Rank to a large extent.

Dinadon · 06-21-2014, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Why are we holding onto recursive Allies so much? If we have the Mob Boss or the President as an Ally (or Patron), we're interested in their Rank to a large extent.

Not sure. But yes, Rank is certainly a more appropriate consideration than Allies/Contacts.

Otaku · 06-21-2014, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

Allies are probably underpriced, though.

Are they?

Honest question; especially as I try to get a better handle on the 4e rules, I just can't tell for sure. An ally is an NPC that (unless you take certain modifiers) is "friendly" to the PC. They may be able to do things you can't but that doesn't mean they can do everything.

vicky_molokh · 06-21-2014, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otaku

Are they?

Honest question; especially as I try to get a better handle on the 4e rules, I just can't tell for sure. An ally is an NPC that (unless you take certain modifiers) is "friendly" to the PC. They may be able to do things you can't but that doesn't mean they can do everything.

Well, for [20], you get to bring another character to the game, who happens to be as good as inviting another friend IRL to play another PC, but played by the GM instead. And said ally happens to be your character's friend by default, unlike another PC (who might be with the party for other reasons, friendly with the whole party equally etc. etc. etc.)

Fred Brackin · 06-21-2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otaku

Are they?
.

Some of it may depend on the power level of the game. Figuring Allies on a percentage of the PCs point value but only charging a fixed price for them could well be a mistake.

A 100 pt PC can have a 100pt Ally all the time for 20pts and it might or might not be worth it. For a 200pt PC to have a 200 pt Ally for 20 pts is more than twice as good. It might be 4 times as good.

However, after you fixed Allies, re-pricing Contacts as Limitation on Ally (say, "information and minor aid only") might be a good idea.

Nosforontu · 06-21-2014, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otaku

Are they?

Honest question; especially as I try to get a better handle on the 4e rules, I just can't tell for sure. An ally is an NPC that (unless you take certain modifiers) is "friendly" to the PC. They may be able to do things you can't but that doesn't mean they can do everything.

...Its complicated really on just how good of a character point value having an ally is for a player in practice. It means that you have at least one other nPC in the game of a relatively close point value to you that is going to try and help you out a lot. Its not really much more valuable than having another PC seated at the table which is worth no points by itself since none of the PCs are required to pay points for the privilige of having other PCS at the table.

On the other hand it is another nPC with its own action economy that can for x points effectively double a characters value if you control an ally worth your points.

sir_pudding · 06-21-2014, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Playing a cop who's also a mob boss could be extremely interesting in the Chinese sense of that word. I don't see the problem.

What if I want to play a cop who knows a mob boss? Surely that's possible in a K-sane/K-competent game.

Not another shrubbery · 06-21-2014, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

Allies are probably underpriced, though.

Yeah, I've had occasion to think so. They certainly can make Contacts look overpriced in comparison. The percentage rule for them is the culprit (MO), but if you kept it, you might be able to use a similar mechanic for pricing Contacts to lessen the discrepancies.

sir_pudding · 06-21-2014, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danukian

Most (If not all) of the templates in MH3 list Contacts and/or Allies in their standard advantage package. So at least 2 in DF15 off the top of my head (Shamanic Initiate for sure and I believe Agent), so I'm not sure where you are getting that rule.

That's weird, since it directly violates the Basic Set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B37

Only PCs who take NPCs as Allies pay points for the privilege. Two PCs can be mutual “allies” for free, as can two NPCs – and NPCs never pay points for PCs as Allies. An Ally is specifically a skilled NPC associate for one PC.