[DF] Help with a new race

[Varyon]

So, I've been working on the template for a race I was thinking of incorporating into DF. I'm still deciding on an official name (currently leaning toward Feuyaner, elven for something like "abhorred man"), but for now I'll be using their working title (and likely common nickname), trollkin.

Trollkin aren't actually related to trolls, and don't really have much resemblance to them, aside from having rather impressive regenerative abilities and a weakness to fire. I'm also still working on their appearance - for now they have a vaguely elven appearance with an oversized mouth. The walk very slightly stooped forward and have a long (nearly 3 yards), thick, flexible tail.

As things currently stand, they are about a [-1] race, which doesn't sit well with me. Here are their traits:

Resurrection: This is a meta-trait, consisting of a custom Unkillable 2 Only Advantage (base cost [60], it also has Achilles Heel: Burning damage -50%) and Doesn't Eat or Drink (Only while "dead," -40%). The metatrait has a rather debilitating Backlash - -3 to ST and DX, as well as Increased Consumption 3 (Cast Iron Stomach -50%).
I've done several tweaks here. First, rather than have Achilles Heel mean the character expires when killed by any Burning attack, I have it as the character expires when killed by any attack if he has taken 2xHP injury or more from burning attacks. I also have Unkillable 2 result in the character reviving once they reach 1 HP. The Backlash, which I've dubbed "Resurrection Sickness," doesn't entirely last the full length of the Backlash. To determine length, take the amount of time the character spent "dead" and divide by 6. Each time this amount of time passes, the character makes an HT roll - each success reduces the ST/DX penalty and the Increased Consumption by 1 (critical success ends the Backlash entirely). While I could figure out exactly how much this would be worth, I'm fairly confident it will be -40% or more, which sets both components of the metatrait at -80%. I've also allowed Cast Iron Stomach as a modifier on Increased Consumption, basically meaning while the character needs to eat a good deal more, the necessary additional food need not be of very high quality. The final cost of the metatrait is [14].

Regrowth: Unkillable 2 includes Regrowth (it usually requires the character die to activate it, but that seems foolish so I'm ignoring that bit), but our version has a rather nasty Backlash. Regrowth (Achilles Heel -50%) would be worth [5], the version we had above was worth [2], so we pay the difference - [3].

Fast Regeneration: This has our standard Achilles Heel, and also has Temporary Disadvantage: Increased Consumption 1 (Cast Iron Stomach) -5% and Not While Dead, which I peg at around -15%. So long as the character has consumed twice what he'd normally need to, he regenerates at a rate of 1 HP per minute. Final cost is [15].

Very Fast Regeneration: Trollkin can opt to burn food reserves for a sudden boost in regeneration. This has the same Limitations as Fast Regeneration, but without Not While Dead - because it instead has Backlash: 3 FP damage with the Starvation modifier (which works out to -21%). This would be [24], but we can only get [-2] out of our Temporary Disadvantage this time (we've already got [-2] from it above, and the maximum total discount for it would be [-4]), so it's [26] - as [15] of this is already payed for by Fast Regeneration, final cost is [11].

Claws: Trollkin have sharp claws at the ends of their fingers. I've opted to use Natural Weapons from Pyramid #3.65 - the claws are Cutting, with Extra Damage Type (Large Piercing) and Cannot Parry - final cost is [6].

Teeth: Trollkin have very sharp (but not elongated) canines and incisors, with strong molars for crushing and grinding. In this case, the teeth are Cutting with Hidden, Cannot Parry, Single, and Weak, for a final cost of [2].
On a related note, the trollkin also have Born Biter 1.

Tail: This was a tough one. The tail should function as a limb for purposes of crippling and the like, have Reach C,1 (C-2 for the Rear Arc), and do damage like a punch (thr-1 cr). It lacks fine manipulators - while flexible, it's not even close to prehensile. The closest I could manage was Extra Leg with No Walking -50% (you lose the redundancy factor of a third leg) and Long (Limited, Rear Arc) +50%, and assumed the damage loss accounted for if I made an error. The tail can strike with DX or Brawling and grapple with DX or Wrestling; a Perk (Tail Fighting?) allows it to be used with Karate and/or Judo. Final cost of [5].
The tail does require armor to be modified to accomodate it, and introduces a new Armor Gap if using those rules. This is comparable to the Armpit gap, but strikes the pelvis rather than the Vitals and can only be targeted from behind. I consider this as just a Feature.

Reduced Consumption: Trollkin can get by on lower quality food than humans, getting Reduced Consumption 2 (Cast Iron Stomach). I actually interpret Cast Iron Stomach a bit differently from RAW - rather than reducing the cost of food directly, any "meal" to which Reduced Consumption applies can be of far lower quality than normal food - typically 1/10th the cost, or even free. Roll against Survival +4 if searching for such low quality food rather than a better meal. Even with normal Survival, a character with Cast Iron Stomach has the potential of getting more out of whatever you catch/find - every 3 "normal" meals also yield an additional "cast iron" meal. Trollkin need to eat at least 1 "normal" meal each day, but the rest of their calories can be obtained from moldy bread, animal bones, etc. Final cost of [2].

Feasting: This is an interesting trait. Trollkin are capable - through great effort - of permanently modifying their own physiology in a variety of ways. They might add length and strength to their claws and/or teeth (higher damage), develop dedicated leg muscles (Catfall, Enhanced Move, Super Jump), and so forth. This takes a good deal of time and a lot of food. While feasting, a trollkin is incapable of doing much beyond eating and sleeping, often sleeping for up to 20 hours a day. Feasting results in the trollkin gaining character points as though he were undergoing Training or Intensive Training, depending on how much he is spending on food (essentially, you spend enough on food each day to hire a teacher for the day; Training can be up to 8 hours worth of gain each day, Intensive Training up to 16 hours, although you still need a modified HT of 12+ to manage that). These character points can only be spent on Power-Ups from a specific list* (although the GM may allow other traits he feels make sense).
This is effectively a combination of a minor Unusual Background (access to the various Power-Ups) and a Perk to always have a teacher on call when you need one, although even just 8 hours of training burns through an entire day. I've eyeballed the trait at [2].

Social Stigma: Trollkin are regarded as a step above monsters, but it's not much of a step. The closest thing is Minority Group, at [-10].

Stress Atavism (Mild): When under conditions of extreme stress, trollkin tend not to cope well, becoming somewhat bestial and likely to eschew weapons in favor of tearing foes apart with claws and teeth. While the template has this pegged at SC 12, as normal, many trollkin tend to have the trait at SC 15, and it's possible to drop it down to a Quirk (but not get rid of it entirely). At SC 12, it's worth [-10].

Potential Monster: Along with Stress Atavism, this metatrait is one of the reasons trollkin get a bad rap. Consuming the flesh of sentient creatures has a horrible effect on a trollkin's psyche, turning them into little more than ravenous beasts (although going long enough without eating people can cause them to revert back). I've built this as a combination of Wild Animal (without the Fixed IQ) and OPH: Eats People. This would be worth [-45], but trollkin also have a Vow to not eat people (people here defined as sentient creatures) and an Advantage that negates the Wild Animal + OPH but has a Pact limitation linked to the Vow. I've eyeballed the Vow at [-5], making the whole combination worth a total of [-7] ([-45] for the monster bit, [-5] for the Vow, [43] for the Pact-Limited Advantage).
While I like the flavor of this trait, I think I'm going to drop it -

Vulnerability, Fire: Trollkin are particularly susceptible to flame, taking double damage. As a Common threat, this is a [-30] trait.

Gluttony: Trollkin are nothing if not heavy eaters. Again, this is pegged at SC 12, but in this case many trollkin have worse SC numbers. As with Stress Atavism, a character can potentially drop this all the way to a Quirk, but no lower. [-5].


*List on next post.

[Varyon]

The list thus far is below. A trollkin character can start with any of these traits, provided he has the points available.
ST (and subsets thereof - HP, Striking ST, etc)
HT (and subsets thereof - FP, Hard to Kill, etc)
BrachiatorCatfall
Damage Resistance - this must initially take Tough Skin -40%, but every third point of DR is instead Subdermal -20% (loses the Flexible but blood agents still apply)
Doesn't Breathe - this is only available as Oxygen Storage (25x) -50%; it represents massively increased lung capacity, and must be preceded by taking Penetrating Voice
Enhanced Move
Fit/Very Fit
Flight - this is always Winged and starts out with Gliding, then can be upgraded to Controlled Gliding. After this it becomes Cannot Hover and Costs 4 FP, after which point the character may buy off the FP cost and/or Cannot Hover
Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction (Physical Attacks)
Nictitating MembranePayload - this represents a shaped carrying pouch
Rapid Healing
Resistant - the character can become resistant to Metabolic Hazards or any subset thereof; he is limited to a +3 against all Metabolic Hazards or +8 against a Common subset, but can have Immunity to Occasional and Rare subsets
Spines - these must have Short and Switchable
Super Jump

Finally, improvements to the character's Natural Weapons and tail are also possible. Claws can be elongated (longer Reach), be made capable of Parrying, and have improved damage (large piercing -> impaling, also damage bonuses). Teeth can get larger canines (impaling damage, with cutting as an option) or become sharper and stronger (more damage), and the jaw can gain the ability to extend, treating the character as an additional 1 SM larger for purposes of biting (but not targetting the jaw); this is a Perk. The tail can grow a Natural Weapon of its own (often similar to an axe or sickle blade) or, more commonly, grow some bone anchoring points to allow certain weapons to be strapped onto the tail instead (this is a Perk). Weapons thus wielded use their normal skill at -2 (this can be bought off with another Perk, but the points for it can't come from Feasting).

The template, in DF fashion (but leaving out some of the mess of modifiers), follows:

Trollkin [-2]

Advantages: Claws (Cutting/Pi+) [6]; Fast Regeneration (AH: Burning, Increased Consumption 1 CIS, not while dead) [15]; Feasting [2]; Reduced Consumption 2 (CIS) [2]; Regrowth (AH: Burning) [3]; Resurrection (AH: Burning; Resurrection Sickness) [14]; Tail [5]; Teeth (Cutting) [2]; Very Fast Regeneration (AH: Burning, Increased Consumption 1 CIS, 3 Starvation FP) [11]

Disadvantages: Gluttony* [-5]; Potential Monster (Limiter: Don't Eat People) [-7]; Social Stigma (Minority Group) [-10]; Stress Atavism (Mild)* [-10]; Vulnerability x2 (Fire) [-30]

Features: Additional armor gap against Pelvis from behind (due to Tail); human pelvic armor may need modified; Born Biter 1

I'm seriously considering dropping Potential Monster - it's a bit finicky, the Vow probably shouldn't be worth [-5] (it's less limiting than vegetarianism, for example), and it basically sets things up where the character can easily be tricked (particularly with Gluttony) into eating a little Soylent Green and potentially become an NPC (although with allies, they can just kill him, drag him out, then chain him up in case he wakes up while still in "eat people" mode). Also, dropping it changes the template to [5], meaning I can require [20] in Feasting Power-Ups for a solid [25] template. I do like the concept - a being who should be a monster but maintains its "humanity" through adherence to a Vow - but I don't think the way I have it set up is the way to do it.

...

At this point, you may be wondering what I need help with. Well, one thing is opinions on the modifiers/traits I've introduced. Another, perhaps more important one, is what sort of role do you see such a race playing in a delving group? I'm thinking they would be great martial artists with all their natural weapons, but I'm worried about the potential for them to be a bit too good at too many professions for their point cost, possibly forcing other races out of their DF niches.

[Varyon]

It's been a while, but I think I have the final version of the Feuyaner template worked out. Here it is, with explanations of the new traits. You'll notice that some of the traits have fractional point cost - if you'd prefer to avoid this complication, simply round most of them up, and reduce the necessary Feasting Power-Ups to [31].

Feuyaner [25]

Advantages: Born Biter (Switchable) [1]; Claws (Thr Cut/Pi+; [7] with Extra Damage Type +20%, Cannot Parry -40%, Unarmed† -20%) [4.2]; Fast Regeneration (Achilles Heel: Burning -50%; Increased Consumption (CIS) 1 -5%, Not While Dead -15%) [15]; Feasting [2]; Feasting Power-Ups [32.4]; Reduced Consumption 2 (CIS -50%) [2]; Regrowth (Achilles Heel: Burning -50%) [3]; Resurrection (Achilles Heel: Burning -50%; Resurrection Sickness -30%) [14]; Tail [5]; Teeth (Thr-1 Cut; [7] with Hidden +20%, Cannot Parry -40%, Single -20%, Unarmed -20%, Weak -30%) [1.4]; Very Fast Regeneration (Achilles Heel: Burning -50%; Increased Consumption (CIS) 1 -2%, Not While Dead -15%, Backlash: 2 Starvation FP -14%) [5]
†Work in progress, from this thread.

Disadvantages: Balancing Tail [-5]; Glutonny* [-5]; Social Stigma (Minority) [-10]; Stress Atavism* (Mild) [-10]; Vulnerability x2 (Fire) [-30]

Born Biter (Switchable): This allows the Feuyaner to essentially distend their jaw to get the benefits (and penalties) of Born Biter. It takes a Ready action to change between normal and Born Biter.

Feasting: Feuyaner are capable - through great effort - of permanently modifying their own physiology in a variety of ways. This takes a good deal of time and a lot of food. While feasting, a trollkin is incapable of doing much beyond eating and sleeping, often sleeping for up to 20 hours a day. Feasting results in the trollkin gaining character points as though he were undergoing Training or Intensive Training, depending on how much he is spending on food (essentially, you spend enough on food each day to hire a teacher for the day; Training can be up to 8 hours worth of gain each day, Intensive Training up to 16 hours, although you still need a modified HT of 12+ to manage that). These character points can only be spent on Feasting Power-Ups.

Resurrection: The character lacks Unkillable 1, but gets the benefit of Unkillable 2 (coming back to life at 1 HP) and, while dead, needn't eat or drink (although "breathing" is still necessary). Resurrection Sickness is -3 to ST and DX and Increased Consumption (CIS) 3, and allows an HT roll every (days dead)/6 days - success decreases the penalties by 1, critical success eliminates them outright.

Tail: This is a new Advantage - a flexible tail capable of striking, as a punch, at Reach C. It can strike to the Rear (only) at Reach C,1. It is incapable of wielding weapons, and becomes unusable if wearing rigid armor (flexible is fine). It grapples as an arm that lacks fine manipulators (0.3xST). If your "tail" does have manipulators, build it as an Extra Arm instead. It is targeted - and armored - as a Leg (-2). A character can have multiple tails; build each one separately. [5]/tail.
Enhancements
Can Wear Armor: Your tail is capable of wearing rigid armor without loss of flexibility. +60%.
Extra-Flexible: Your tail is more flexible, getting its full Reach in a larger arc. +20% if it reaches to the Sides, +40% if it has full Reach in all directions.
Long: Your tail is longer than normal - use your SM +1/level to calculate Reach. +100%/level.
Weapon Mount: The tip of your tail is capable of supporting a custom "gauntlet," which can have an integrated weapon. This allows you to equip rigid armor on the tip only (1/6 protection; this jumps to 3/6 at maximum Reach). You wield such weapons with their normal skill. +20% if you can only use it to equip melee or ranged weapons, +40% if both are available.
Limitations
Clumsy: Your tail isn't very accurate. -20% per -1 to skill.
Limited Arc: Your tail isn't flexible enough to reach around your body to strike. -20% if limited to Rear and Sides, -40% if limited to Rear.
Short: Your tail is shorter than normal - you may only strike with it at Reach C. -40%.

Balancing Tail: You have a tail, targeted, armored, and crippled as a leg, that is necessary for maintaining balance. If this tail is crippled or lost, you suffer a -2 to DX, Move, and Dodge. Based on this thread, although I felt that gave too many points back.

Feasting Power-Ups: These are applicable Advantages a Feuyaner can acquire via Feasting, and they can also purchase them with points gained through play, Quirks, etc. In addition to the below, the character can also improve their current Natural Weapons (buying off Limitations such as Unarmed and Cannot Parry, or adding Enhancements such as Strong) and improve their Tail (via Enhancements). Note that Feuyaner start out with at least [32.4] points worth of these Power-Ups.
ST (and subsets thereof - HP, Striking ST, etc)
HT (and subsets thereof - FP, Hard to Kill, etc)
Brachiator
Catfall
Damage Resistance - this must initially take Tough Skin -40%, but every third point of DR is instead Subdermal -20% (loses the Flexible but blood agents still apply)
Doesn't Breathe - this is only available as Oxygen Storage (25x) -50%; it represents massively increased lung capacity, and must be preceded by taking Penetrating Voice
Enhanced Move
Fit/Very Fit
Flight - this is always Winged and starts out with Gliding, then can be upgraded to Controlled Gliding. After this it becomes Cannot Hover and Costs 4 FP, after which point the character may buy off the FP cost and/or Cannot Hover
Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction (Physical Attacks)
Natural Weapons: The character can opt to grow a weapon onto his or her tail; this is mutually exclusive with the Weapon Mount Enhancement. The weapon's reach is the same as the Tail's, at no additonal cost.
Nictitating Membrane
Payload - this represents a shaped carrying pouch
Rapid Healing
Resistant - the character can become resistant to Metabolic Hazards or any subset thereof; he is limited to a +3 against all Metabolic Hazards or +8 against a Common subset, but can have Immunity to Occasional and Rare subsets
Spines - these must have Short and Switchable
Super Jump

[aesir23]

I really like these guys! Very original.

You obviously had a very specific vision which you were unwilling to sacrifice to easy of creation within the system, which is admirable.

I'm not sure where you came up with the cost for Feasting Power-Ups. Do they start out with 32.4 points in abilities from Feasting, or 32.4 points that they can spend on new abilities when they feast, or is that just additional unusual background cost?

It seems way to expensive if it's the latter.

Also, why don't you round abilities to the nearest whole number? A house rule of yours?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by aesir23

I really like these guys! Very original.

You obviously had a very specific vision which you were unwilling to sacrifice to easy of creation within the system, which is admirable.

Thanks! Yeah, honestly the primary problem I had was with the Tail - I tried a few permutations of modifying Extra Arm and Extra Legs before I opted to just screw it and make a new Advantage. [5] sounded fair (and matched what I got with my Extra Legs hack), so I went with that.

Originally Posted by aesir23

I'm not sure where you came up with the cost for Feasting Power-Ups. Do they start out with 32.4 points in abilities from Feasting, or 32.4 points that they can spend on new abilities when they feast, or is that just additional unusual background cost?

Sorry, I should have been more explicit, particularly with the way it was listed there. Each Feuyaner is a bit different, but each has to start with at least [32.4] in Feasting Power Ups. For example, the two Feuyaner characters I've built so far (which I need to look at to insure I've followed the new template) are a Knight and Martial Artist. The Knight has DR 2 (Tough Skin), DR 1 (Subdermal), Nictitating Membrane 1, Weapon Mount for his Tail, IT:DR (Crushing Only), and Payload 1 (which he uses as an internal coin purse). The Martial Artist has the same DR, Claws that don't suffer from Unarmed, a scythe-like blade on her Tail, Fit, improved Striking ST, and Penetrating Voice.

Originally Posted by aesir23

Also, why don't you round abilities to the nearest whole number? A house rule of yours?

Pretty much. Final cost is rounded up, and in general I don't have fractional points available, but it just seems unfair to charge, in this case, [7] for two abilities that work out to [4.2] and [1.4].

[chandley]

Out of curiosity, why are you paying 5 points for a custom advantage for your tail, rather than just using a Crushing Striker (Weak x2 -100%, Long (Limited, Rear Arc) +50%, Damaged on Parry by Weapon -30%) [1] ? The above gives you a Limb (-2 to hit, over HP/2 to cripple) that does thr-1 cr to C-1, or C-2 to your rear arc, and acts like a limb, not a weapon, for parrying purposes. TG already lets strikers grapple at 0.3xST, so your covered there. Armor it like a single arm at 2x weight (from long) or like a single leg (which is the same as 2x an arm anyway).

Only house rule in there is the Damaged on Parry by Weapon, saves you from building up a whole new type of leg. And 5 points is definitely way to much for what amounts to a "Punching/bad grappling only Arm".

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by chandley

Out of curiosity, why are you paying 5 points for a custom advantage for your tail, rather than just using a Crushing Striker (Weak x2 -100%, Long (Limited, Rear Arc) +50%, Damaged on Parry by Weapon -30%) [1] ? The above gives you a Limb (-2 to hit, over HP/2 to cripple) that does thr-1 cr to C-1, or C-2 to your rear arc, and acts like a limb, not a weapon, for parrying purposes. TG already lets strikers grapple at 0.3xST, so your covered there. Armor it like a single arm at 2x weight (from long) or like a single leg (which is the same as 2x an arm anyway).

Because I don't use Claws, Teeth, Strikers, or ST-Based Innate Attacks, instead building all of them as Natural Weapons. Additionally, "Damaged on Parry by Weapon" was a Limitation I didn't want to work out (EDIT: although I now have it as "Unarmed" and -20%, but that's meant for Natural Weapons, not Strikers), a second level of Weak would be -1 per die and in general Weak should probably decrease the effective ST for grappling, and Strikers aren't (and shouldn't be) legitimate "bases" for Weapon Mounts or Natural Weapons. I'd also need to tack on a Limitation for being unusable if protected by rigid armor, and honestly [5] just feels right for this sort of Advantage. It's also, conveniently, the opposite price of the Balancing Tail Disadvantage, making the overall trait a Feature.

[chandley]

Fair enough, though I argue against 5 points. 5 points is a Crushing Innate attack at 10/100 with Acc 3. Thats a lot more useful than another limb that you can punch with, but that can also get lopped off. Paying 5 points for the privilege of being able to buy another level of Extra Attack just seems steep.

As a player, Id be lobbying pretty hard to lower that, and I use the Striker example (even though you dont use the Striker advantage) as an argument for the price. That tail just isnt worth much as an advantage.

[Varyon]

It seems to have been worth it in the two battles I've gamed out with those characters so far, but that's with the addition of Weapon Mount for the Knight and a Natural Weapon for the Martial Artist (being able to Parry with a tail-mounted weapon can be a life saver, and reduced Rapid Strike penalties by using Dual Weapon Attacks isn't too shabby either). Of course, we're just looking at a difference of [4], when each character is built on [300], so it's hard to say which price would be more fair.

Such a tail strikes me as being roughly half as useful as an extra arm (which is worth [10]) - it's not a good manipulator, but can still strike and defend (protect it with some mail and it's nearly as good as an armed defense) and has the ability to strike with better Reach (in addition to attacks to the Rear, I allow any sort of spinning strike - Spinning Attack, Whirlwind Attack, etc - to strike with full Reach, as your back is facing the foe at some point). You appear to see it as being worth roughly 1/10th as much as an extra arm. We're both probably off to some degree, of course. [2] or [3] is probably closer to the mark.

EDIT: Thinking about it more, it may be appropriate to have a base cost of [5], but rather than the tail requiring an Enhancement to be able to equip rigid armor, the requirement for flexible armor is a -40% Limitation - or only -20% if the tail can equip rigid armor on the tip (as per Weapon Mount). This sets the current build (flexible armor only) as being worth [3], but the various Enhancements still have their normal absolute prices.