Question on Feints and penalties

[Cyrilin]

Hello dear GURPS community. First post and I have to start off with a bit of difficult question. How do DX penalties factor into making and resisting feints?
This situation:

1. I am in close combat with a shield user (3 DB). Usually he'd be at a -3 DX while in close combat with me. Will this give him a -3 to resist my feint?

2. GURPS Martial Arts goes more into detail about the penalties long weapons have in close combat:

A reach 1+ weapon in close combat gives a skill penalty
equal to -4 times its longest reach in yards, regardless of the
reach you were using it at. This is -4 for 1-yard weapons (most
one-handed swords, flails, and impact weapons), -8 for 2-yard
weapons (spears, staffs, short polearms, most two-handed
flails and impact weapons, and longer swords – greatsword,
katana, rapier, etc.), and -12 for 3-yard weapons (long spears
and polearms). This lowers skill for all purposes – including
making and resisting disarms and feints, and all armed striking
techniques – except those specifically excepted below.

I brought this up with someone, who then said that it's simply badly worded and that while using a long arm in close combat would penalize MAKING feints, it would have no bearing on resisting them and that the wording is simply poor and really meaning it only affects making and resisting disarms and making feints.

Can someone please clarify?

[Kromm]

We strive to use the words we mean. If a rule says "DX penalty," then it lowers DX for all purposes, which in turn lowers DX-based skills for all purposes; someone with a DX penalty has the same penalty to make or resist feints. If a rule says "skill penalty," then it lowers the affected skill for all purposes; someone with a skill penalty has the same penalty to make or resist feints with that skill . . . but note that if the GM is using the optional rule on p. 100 of GURPS Martial Arts that allows combatants to resist (but not initiate) feints using their best Melee Weapon or unarmed combat skill, a fighter might be able to work around this penalty by resisting with a skill that hasn't been affected. And if a rule says "penalty to attack" or similar, then it lowers the affected skill for attacks – and since feints and attacks are interchangeable, this will also affect making feints but not resisting them.

For instance, a shield in close combat gives you a DX penalty, so it penalizes all efforts to make or resist feints in close; to avoid this, step out of close combat or get rid of the shield. A long weapon in close combat gives you a skill penalty, so it penalizes all efforts to make or resist feints with the skill for the long weapon; to avoid this, step out of close combat or use something other than the skill for the long weapon to make or resist your feint.

[Cyrilin]

Originally Posted by Kromm

We strive to use the words we mean. If a rule says "DX penalty," then it lowers DX for all purposes, which in turn lowers DX-based skills for all purposes; someone with a DX penalty has the same penalty to make or resist feints. If a rule says "skill penalty," then it lowers the affected skill for all purposes; someone with a skill penalty has the same penalty to make or resist feints with that skill . . . but note that if the GM is using the optional rule on p. 100 of GURPS Martial Arts that allows combatants to resist (but not initiate) feints using their best Melee Weapon or unarmed combat skill, a fighter might be able to work around this penalty by resisting with a skill that hasn't been affected. And if a rule says "penalty to attack" or similar, then it lowers the affected skill for attacks – and since feints and attacks are interchangeable, this will also affect making feints but not resisting them.

Roger that. Thanks, Kromm. You're awesome!

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kromm

We strive to use the words we mean. If a rule says "DX penalty," then it lowers DX for all purposes, which in turn lowers DX-based skills for all purposes; someone with a DX penalty has the same penalty to make or resist feints. If a rule says "skill penalty," then it lowers the affected skill for all purposes; someone with a skill penalty has the same penalty to make or resist feints with that skill . . . but note that if the GM is using the optional rule on p. 100 of GURPS Martial Arts that allows combatants to resist (but not initiate) feints using their best Melee Weapon or unarmed combat skill, a fighter might be able to work around this penalty by resisting with a skill that hasn't been affected. And if a rule says "penalty to attack" or similar, then it lowers the affected skill for attacks – and since feints and attacks are interchangeable, this will also affect making feints but not resisting them.

Oh my. I just realised that Sexy Feints are immune to many DX penalties. (But e.g. Shock still matters.)

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Oh my. I just realised that Sexy Feints are immune to many DX penalties.

As they should be . . . arguably, shoved up against someone in close combat, where movement is awkward and penalized, is where Sexy Feints are most effective.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Kromm

As they should be . . . arguably, shoved up against someone in close combat, where movement is awkward and penalized, is where Sexy Feints are most effective.

I disagree. I think this rule is a mistake, and requires immediate and thorough play testing. Please report back.

:-)

[GodBeastX]

I just gave my ninja that perk. I shall be entertained.

[The Benj]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I disagree. I think this rule is a mistake, and requires immediate and thorough play testing. Please report back.

:-)

I'll get my shield...

[GodBeastX]

Sexy Feints?

Also, reading the MA P.100 rule got me to thinking. Can a GM decide to allow perception or IQ based skill rolls to resist? Considering it's an attempt to fool someone, I imagine that this would allow one to understand they are being fooled. Possibly even a tactics roll? I'm all for tactics having even more use in combat personally.

I'd like feedback on that.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

Sexy Feints?

Using Sex-Appeal skill for a feint. This requires a perk, similar to the Acrobatic Feint perk. See Power-Ups 2: Perks.