Discussion on GURPS 4E Revised or Database

[Raekai]

That's right. A new year, a new thread about a revised fourth edition, a new fifth edition, or some kind of modular supplement, or even funding the technology to implant all GURPS rules directly into our brains! I'd like to take the moment to highlight some ideas that I think are great, but also some points to take into consideration.

Originally Posted by hackbarth

What I would like:

To print my own GURPS Basic Set, with only the portions that will be relevant for the next campaign that'll GM. Only low-TL stuff plus magic for fantasy, only high-TL stuff plus ultra-tech for SF. Modified for technological path or magic systems of the settings.

So that I can take a guide like Dungeon Fantasy or Action, and turn it in my own specialized RPG using GURPS rules in a single book.

All that and Cheap. Waiting for the next TL to roll out.

Originally Posted by cmdicely

IMO, the idea here is fundamentally flawed. Even though much GURPS content is now available electronically, its still a pen and paper RPG. Making it an online-access-dependent system on a Web 2.0/Cloud/SaaS model without altering the content would be, to me, an insane step.

If you are going to build a game system product that is dependent on network access (and, hence, on computing resource), you shouldn't just take a pen & paper RPG and repackage it, you should build a system that leverages computing resources to enhance gameplay, as well as to organize content.

Originally Posted by Kromm

That is, unfortunately, a perpetually unrealizable goal. There's no reason to believe that those who didn't switch from 1st to 2nd, 1st and 2nd to 3rd, or 1st through 3rd to 4th would jump from 1st through 4th to 5th. People who like an edition tend to stick with it, and as long as they accept "no new support" as a condition of doing so, that's cool. And newcomers might want their new edition, but keeping up with that is literally an impossible task.

What motivates a 5th edition is unlikely to be any kind of failing (real or perceived) in the 4th – or the 1st through 3rd – nor is it likely to be fan pressure. Most likely, if it happens, it will be tied to moving to new media. Rules may very well remain entirely unchanged, but simply be better-integrated and more easily found thanks to technology. We'll see (or not) . . .

Originally Posted by Rasputin

1) Not officially, though there always threads suggesting it, like the other guy said. I think Kromm said that if the current state of the market continues, there won't be a 5e. If there is, the logical time is no earlier than 2020 (giving it at least a lifespan as long as 3e), and the main media won't be dead trees or electronic imitations thereof, but instead some sort of updateable app.
2) No, though it wouldn't irk me too much if done just right. The current GURPS problems are with presentation, not with missing options in Basic. There really should be full-game folders for Dungeon Fantasy and Space Opera.
3) Characters would ditch Combat Lite and add a couple pages of equipment, change the weapon and armor weights to match Low-Tech, maybe add a few techniques and some common modifiers to advantages/disadvantages. Actually, I know some techniques to add, and those are the Acrobatics ones from Compendium II. Campaigns would ditch Infinite Worlds and add computer rules from Ultra-Tech, trap rules from Dungeon Fantasy, chase rules from Action, Hiking rules from High-Tech, Telegraphic Attack from Martial Arts. The animals would be in the new Bestiary format that is in Dungeon Fantasy and have their attacks specified, and there would be a few common foes, like giant spiders and insane robots (see Savage Worlds Deluxe for a good list). There would be more example poisons, and some example diseases from Compendium II. Social skill rules would be clarified per Social Engineering. The Combat Lite and the Infinite Worlds chapters would be bonuses in the PDF version, and be free downloads otherwise.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

The rules for Complementary Skill Rolls. It was a pretty stupid oversight not to create something like that during the creation of 4E. Hero System has had a CSR rule for a very long time, and it's a really obvious kind of general rule to have.

I don't like the idea of a Revised 4th Edition, but a 4th Edition Upgrade, as a complementary volume that you buy to use with your existing 4th Edition core books, is starting to make somse sense.

Originally Posted by Mathulhu

The game does not need a new version or revision but there are some things that need to be done.

Some kind of compilation of all the rules, not a reprinting just a list of where to find useful rules. There are a lot of gems hidden in odd books.

That would go a long way towards helping the people who are overwhelmed by the number of optional rules.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Given that the appendix added to the Basic Set, Third Edition Revised – and ultimately, all of Compendium I and II – came to be seen as "required," even though SJ Games didn't force them down throats, it stands to reason that any addendum or compendium for the Basic Set, Fourth Edition would come to be seen as "required." As we already get a lot of flak for how large the Basic Set, Fourth Edition is, I think that if we did have a serious internal discussion, we would conclude that an intermediate edition would be suicidally bad. At 576 pages plus appendices and/or compendia, the game would be lambasted by the hobby and summarily executed.

Ultimately, I think that a lot of "missing" content is actually out there in either the Basic Set, Fourth Edition or a PDF. Current thinking at SJ Games is to sell add-on content via PDFs on e23, and I somewhat doubt that we would steal the thunder from existing publications by republishing key rules in a collection. Considering those rules for a future full edition – in the 2020s, as others have said – is a whole other issue. That is very likely what we would do, assuming there is a 5e someday.

I think all of these ideas together would be neat. I really do think that GURPS does call for some kind of revision or update in a way. To make that happen, I think that GURPS would have to step away from both books and pdfs. Like mentioned several times, there could be some kind of database. And I really love the above idea of being able to essentially piece together your own book out of it. I know that's technically possible to do right now, but formatting a copy-paste of the specific rules you want takes too long and is ultimately extremely messy. Furthermore, there are some things that certainly call for an update. A lot of key rules are added in various Pyramid issues. I'm not suggesting we steal Pyramid's thunder. I'm suggesting something like... You would be going through the database looking for a rule and it would say where that rule is available. There are so many cool things out there, but, honestly, the biggest problem for me is not knowing where to look. Then, even if I did have an unlimited budget, I could spend hours upon hours picking through chapters and chapters of material to find a single rule which would have been useful to have in the Basic Set.

Furthermore, I suggest these things because I love GURPS, and I want others to love it too. I really do think that having a database with possible preset rulesets (think GURPS Lite and a GURPS Not-Quite-As-Lite) would be a great way to get people to shut up about how complicated GURPS is (including myself). I'd love to be able to easily and conveniently compile all of the info that I need across various books into a single campaign-specific rulebook.

How to make it work? How to price something like that? Well, I'm not entirely sure. I might be smart, but I don't exactly have the brains for that. I'm an abstract thinker. Now I'd love to see some serious discussion and ideas. I might be freshly an adult, but if someone hired me to get working on this, you can bet your best dice that I would try.

Here's to another year of GURPS, and I wish you all the best new year!