[D&D Adaptation Question] Swallow Whole rules and mechanics?

[davidtmoore]

Might be able to model the Swallow Whole feat on the Born Biter feature out of Martial Arts, which effectively increases the character's SM for purposes of determining how large a part of his opponent he can fit in his mouth.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Adelus

I can see this being problematic in certain cases, like if a creature devours its prey long-ways over several turns, like a snake or dragon might. It might not be able to fit a whole person inside its mouth, but so long as it can get wide enough to accept the shoulders it might be able to eat them.

EDIT: Just realized you were probably talking about total creature SM, not just its mouth or throat. Nevermind that, then! And in the case it eats something bigger than it, that's probably a call for Stretching or maybe even Growth.

Yep. Snakes only need to stretch their mouth/throat to match their prey's *smallest* dimension for SM, as opposed to the usual *largest* dimension. The same is likely true for dragons, giant frogs, and other creatures that tend to swallow things whole.

[Adelus]

Originally Posted by davidtmoore

Might be able to model the Swallow Whole feat on the Born Biter feature out of Martial Arts, which effectively increases the character's SM for purposes of determining how large a part of his opponent he can fit in his mouth.

Thanks! I forgot about this bit from MA. Is it in the main book or a supplement?

For modeling capacity, we can just use the 1 Size Category = 2 SM approximation gilbertocarlos mentioned. Intermediate SMs would count as 2/3rds of the next SM, since they're roughly around 66%/70%. As for adjusting that, as mentioned before, maybe a limitation on Stretching to represent being able to hold more than their body would normally allow? And maybe a disadvantage for the opposite?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Adelus

T
3) While silly, it is true to the rules and genre conventions that after slicing yourself out of a creatures stomach, its wound closes via "muscular action" or some other nonsense. Worth bothering with this? Probably just a setting switch, or limited niche form of regeneration/a perk level benefit.

Thanks for any responses.

Huhn? It might be true to the rules, but the genre convention is that the creature dies.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Huhn? It might be true to the rules, but the genre convention is that the creature dies.

The main reason it appears in the rules is so it's possible to slice your way out without chewing through the several hundred hit points of a purple worm. I don't believe it was possible in AD&D.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Huhn? It might be true to the rules, but the genre convention is that the creature dies.

I've only played this sort of thing under old versions of D&D, but cutting your way out tended to require doing enough damage to kill the beast anyway.

[Adelus]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Huhn? It might be true to the rules, but the genre convention is that the creature dies.

Originally Posted by Anthony

The main reason it appears in the rules is so it's possible to slice your way out without chewing through the several hundred hit points of a purple worm. I don't believe it was possible in AD&D.

Originally Posted by johndallman

I've only played this sort of thing under old versions of D&D, but cutting your way out tended to require doing enough damage to kill the beast anyway.

I'm referring to the 3.X rules, where it seems usually that you have to do much less damage than the creature's full HP to get out.

For instance, a Tarrasque has 858 HP, but you only need to deal 50 damage to escape its stomach. Considering that its relatively easy at those levels to get protection against the relatively minor crushing and acid damage, the much lower AC of the Tarrasque from the inside, and not having to deal with its attacks and its special protective scales, one strategy is to simply let yourself get eaten and kill it easily from the inside.

As another example, a T-Rex listed on the d20srd has 180 HP, and only 25 damage is needed from the inside to escape.

[Adelus]

Minor update.

Been experimenting a bit trying to figure out how to model how much bigger something has to be to swallow something else (instead of going right along with the D&D size categories). I'm hovering around a difference of around 6 to 8 SMs, before getting into modifiers like Born Biter, Stretching, etc.

Though now I've had some more ideas;

1) At what point is something so big that it doesn't make sense to charge it for Constricting Attack (Engulfing)? At about 6-8 or so SMs of difference, assuming that's raw size and not effective from stretching (a dragon or giant, as compared to a "small" giant toad or man-eater plant), its at the point that they could probably just grapple/bite and realistically swallow without the need for a special ability.

1.5) Maybe it might be more prudent to make a house ruled maneuver/technique off of grappling for this?

2) Depending on the size difference, how would it be modeled for an attempted swallow taking more than one turn? What modifier on Constricting Attack would fit?

Also, I'm debating whether cutting oneself out would require enough damage to qualify as a Major Wound, or just a particular fraction of HP.

[gilbertocarlos]

SM-6 would be a large apple or banana, doubt a human being could fit one in the mouth.
SM-7 is a small to standard apple/banana, It may fit in the mouth, but It will be very hard and painful.
SM-8 is what I lean towards, the size of a lime, most people could fit one in the mouth.

[Mister Negative]

FWIW, I don't think the damage necessary to escape is 'cutting yourself out of the beastie's body', but represents doing enough damage to force/encourage the creature to vomit you forth. I'm recalling this from Pathfinder, so it may be different in straight D&D, though.

That's a thing to consider within GURPS, though, that should add some fun (at least, for the GM) complexity. You could have some creatures which swallow whole and can be encouraged to regurgitate a meal with applications of force. You could have other creatures which either lack a vomit reflex or are used to violently struggling prey which you must simply cut your way out of, killing them in the process. The first type might not be terribly deadly internally, since their innards are relatively sensitive and used to non-resisting prey, and the second might be quite deadly inside (crushing stomachs and strong acids) since they are actually planning on killing prey by swallowing it.

Also, that gives you fun options against them too. If you can figure out that a creature can't, or won't, regurgitate, then you can feed them the sorts of traps that a quick vomiter would burp back up (heated stones, chaos shards, dire sea urchins).