Unbalanced Weapon clarification

[templar]

Hi Everyone!

Quick unbalanced weapons clarification. Iv'e got two conflicting rulings on Unbalanced Weapons. The 4th edition faq indicates that you cannot parry and attack in the same round with an unbalanced weapon, while page 208 of the basic rules indicates that you cannot parry if you have already attacked in the round. So to clarify, can you parry with an unbalanced weapon if you have not already used it in the round to attack, but later in the same round perform an attack with it?


Thanks!

[mr beer]

And addendum question: does enough ST make the weapon 'balanced' so you can attack and parry and if so, where is the rule?

[templar]

Originally Posted by mr beer

And addendum question: does enough ST make the weapon 'balanced' so you can attack and parry and if so, where is the rule?

From what I've read on the forums searching for the above question, high ST cannot cannot balance an unbalanced weapon.

[Gef]

Originally Posted by templar

From what I've read on the forums searching for the above question, high ST cannot cannot balance an unbalanced weapon.

Correct.

tbrock is correct too, with a caveat. GURPS Martial Arts introduces the Defensive Attack, half-way between a regular attack and an All-Out Defense. If you accept lower damage, then you can parry with an unbalanced weapon.

Battleaxe inflicts sw+2/cut normally. For any less than ST 17, it inflicts sw/cut with a Defensive Attack, same as a shortsword. The difference is, a battleaxe is way cheaper than a shortsword.

GEF

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by mr beer

And addendum question: does enough ST make the weapon 'balanced' so you can attack and parry and if so, where is the rule?

Not directly, no, but making a Defensif attack (Martial Arts) allows you to attack with an Unbalanced weapon at -2 damage to ignore the Unbalanced part.

[gilbertocarlos]

Did you attack with the axe? no? ok, you can parry.
Did you attack with the axe? yes? ok, no parry for you.

[Phantasm]

The key here is that your turn starts when you decide what maneuver you're using this turn (if you're attacked before your first turn starts, you're assumed to be doing the Do Nothing maneuver).

So, before you can decide on a maneuver, you're attacked. Because you're Doing Nothing, you can Parry with your weapon.

Then you choose your maneuver; if you choose to perform any Attack maneuver (including Defensive, Committed, All-Out, and Move-and, though not sure if Feint counts), you cannot Parry with that weapon again until your turn in the init order comes around again, at which point you choose your next maneuver.

Clear as mud?

[Balor Patch]

The key here is that you are using "Unbalanced" for two entirely different traits. A weapon with a "U" in the parry column is unbalanced, and cannot parry if used to attack (but see Defensive Attack in MA). A weapon with a double-dagger in the ST column is indefinately named and becomes unready when used to attack.

Edit: Increased ST can prevent a double-dagger weapon from becoming unready, or even allow it to be used one-handed, but does nothing for an Unbalanced. DF1 has a weapon trait, Dwarven, that removes the U for increased weapon cost but it's about cool rather than realism.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by templar

So to clarify, can you parry with an unbalanced weapon if you have not already used it in the round to attack, but later in the same round perform an attack with it?

No.

Originally Posted by B269

"U" means the weapon is unbalanced: you cannot use it to parry if you have already used it to attack this turn, or vice versa

(emphasis mine). Also note that a turn in GURPS goes from the start of your action to the start of your next action; there is no universal turn.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by templar

So to clarify, can you parry with an unbalanced weapon if you have not already used it in the round to attack, but later in the same round perform an attack with it?

What's throwing you off a little here is the idea of a "round." GURPS doesn't have a "round." Each person has a turn, those turns are sequential and overlap. If you attack on your turn with an unbalanced weapon, you cannot parry with it if you're attacked before your next turn.

So if Able has a mace and swings at Baker, and then Baker attacks back, Able can't parry with his mace because he used it to attack this turn. On his next turn, he can attack. If he does not, he can parry when Baker's next turn comes.

Forget the idea that there is a "round" of action that determines when something was used or not. Each person has their own individual turn; you can't both attack and defend with an Unbalanced weapon during the same turn.