grappling a flier

[Mirtai]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

There's a rule in Basic, even, about when a critter can just wander away when being grappled. Something like a flier should maybe struggle for a turn or two, but then once airborne, it's just carried weight.

Here it is: Exception: If you grapple a foe of more than twice your ST, you do not prevent him from moving away – you’re just extra encumbrance for him!

Yes. Of course, the person who wants to fly in this case is the weaker one.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Mirtai

Yes. Of course, the person who wants to fly in this case is the weaker one.

Yeah, but this seems, without knowing the exact details, where the ST of the creatures and their weight aren't remotely correlated. The flier can apparently treat the grappler as light encumbrance, so that's less than 2xBL, right? So he's light enough that a regular guy could pick up the grappler in two seconds with a one-handed lift.

Technical Grappling does everything by Basic Lift for a reason. :-)

[Ack]

Originally Posted by Mirtai

Or the rule that prevents someone being grappled from moving at all unless they have twice their opponent's strength or greater. (pg 371 of the basic book)

Sure, it makes sense for someone with force of will flight to be able to fly regardless, so long as the other person grappling is under their weight limit...

But where is the rule that states that flight breaks the rule that a grappled person cannot move?

Oh, hi, GM. :D

[Ack]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Yeah, but this seems, without knowing the exact details, where the ST of the creatures and their weight aren't remotely correlated. The flier can apparently treat the grappler as light encumbrance, so that's less than 2xBL, right? So he's light enough that a regular guy could pick up the grappler in two seconds with a one-handed lift.

Technical Grappling does everything by Basic Lift for a reason. :-)

The grappler actually weighs over a ton. But the flier has ST enough to heft that with Light encumbrance.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Ack

The grappler actually weighs over a ton. But the flier has ST enough to heft that with Light encumbrance.

Yeah, that's like a ST 10 guy picking up a 40-lb weight. He might struggle with it (and it'll take two seconds to do it), but lifting it is a foregone conclusion.

[Ack]

As I understand things, the two-second rule is to do with one-handed lifting. He's just flying. Using his whole body to lift.

[Mirtai]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Yeah, that's like a ST 10 guy picking up a 40-lb weight. He might struggle with it (and it'll take two seconds to do it), but lifting it is a foregone conclusion.

But what if that 40 pound weight was twice your size, more than twice as strong as you, and trying to shove your face into the dirt?

You're applying acceleration to try and lift off, and he uses his greater strength and mass to redirect you into the ground. You might do yourself some damage trying though.

Sure... Superman could fly while the Hulk is holding on to him. But Sups is quite a bit stronger than the hulk.

Of course, these are all LOGIC arguments about super heroes. What would be truly useful would be a rule in the books someplace that would apply.

The rules (pg 371) state that you can't move while grappled unless you're stronger than the grappler. Is there anything that states that flight trumps that?

[Ack]

Characters with basic Flight can fly forwards, backwards, up, down, sideways. There is no difference. There is no 'set direction' for flying. A non-flying character, no matter how strong he is, cannot 'redirect you' into the ground if you don't want to go into the ground, and if you are able to lift his weight with ease.

At least, that's the way I see it.

[Mirtai]

To be more specific... a normal human sized flying brick type with a strength of 60 fighting a standing brick type with a strength over 200 and +2 Size Categories. The 200 strength giant sized super grapples. Can the 60 strength super just fly up and over and crash them both into the ground?

(the assumption that, being bigger, that bigger super would take a lot more damage when they both hit... which is actually fair, as impact damage from crashing is based on HP, of which the bigger super has quite a few more of)

[Ack]

Well, that part applies the Collision rules. Which are quite clear.