Weapons and Their Costs

[Jinumon]

Hello once again, Everyone!

I've come to realize over the last few months that the GURPS online community is probably the best I've ever seen, and you don't seem to ever disappoint with results. So I've got another question, one that has been bothering me for at least six months.

Is there any rhyme or reason to the costs assigned to weapons, or is it all arbitrary?

Specifically, I'm referring to Ultratech. Modern weapons can be mostly equated to their real-world counterparts in cost, but for the longest time, I've been curious as to whether or not there is a system for assigning prices. I've tried creating weapons as advantages and finding a conversion for CP and G$, I've tried lengthy 8+ variable systems of equations, and nothing that I have tried seems to work.

There is nothing I'd like more than to be able to create a weapon as a GM, and give it a fair, unbiased value. Otherwise, I find the creation of new gear to be gamebreaking or useless; the gear in question is either way too cost efficient or it only works half as well as preexisting equipment. Any help, whether RaW, suggested, or mathematical would help. Please and thank you to any and all contributors.

Jinumon

[ericbsmith]

Most G$ costs are going to be based on a combination of real world extrapolations, wild authorial guesstimates, and editorial fiat. As you say, real world items can be fact checked against real world examples; however for equipment that is literally made up you have to make up everything about it, including the weapon stats - whether that stat is damage, weight, or cost. This is, after all, a game of make-believe. Of course, this also means that all stats (and costs) are subject to GM fiat as well.

If you want Blaster Pistols to be cheaper or more expensive in your games then you should feel free to do so. The values in the books are there first to provide a baseline for the GM to work from and second to provide a common ground on which the GM and Players can communicate. It is not, however, written in stone.

You are never going to find a CP to G$ conversion that works like you seem to be expecting, because the two are measuring wildly different things. The only place where the two ever come together is when you're purchasing wealth, signature gear, and similar traits for your character. Beyond that there is not, and likely won't ever be, a conversion between the two.

[lexington]

I assume many of them are scaled to reflect what the writers considered "average" for equivalent types of real world weapons. The completely fictitious ones involve a great deal more fiat, I'm sure.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Keep in mind too that any given setting will change listed costs to something based on local taxes, tariffs, industrial subsidies, etc.

If Irondimia has a thriving Needler industry, they may be legal, common, and available for under $500 a pop, with ammo for pennies by the dozen.

Contrast that with the imported Gauss weapons coming from Electrinia, which Irondimia hits with a 500% tariff, on top of a $500 entry fee, insurance and registry fees, and whose batteries must specially tagged.

Of course, in Electrinia the imported Irondimian Needlers are themselves highly taxed registry required weapons, whose ammo must incorporate individual microtags, so no one can afford to carry a Needler there for under $2k.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Jinumon

Specifically, I'm referring to Ultratech. Modern weapons can be mostly equated to their real-world counterparts in cost, but for the longest time, I've been curious as to whether or not there is a system for assigning prices. I've tried creating weapons as advantages and finding a conversion for CP and G$, I've tried lengthy 8+ variable systems of equations, and nothing that I have tried seems to work.

At a minimum you'll need a different set of equations for each type of weapon (convention, gauss, laser, blaster, etc) and each layout of weapon (pistol, smg, rifle).

Remember there is no attempt to produce some kind of "balance" in prices based on weapon stats. The Laser Rifle is simply better than the Laser Carbine the vast majority of the time but the difference in costs doesn't reflect that all.

That's arguably realistic and definitely not a problem since:
Not everyone has access to the Laser Rifle.
In some cases Bulk or weight is important than damage, range, shots.
In some cases price is everything.

Originally Posted by Jinumon

There is nothing I'd like more than to be able to create a weapon as a GM, and give it a fair, unbiased value. Otherwise, I find the creation of new gear to be gamebreaking or useless; the gear in question is either way too cost efficient or it only works half as well as preexisting equipment. Any help, whether RaW, suggested, or mathematical would help. Please and thank you to any and all contributors.

Any weapon creation system in the hands of players will result in exploitation simply because the game has limitations in what it can represent. There will always be breakpoints that allow munchknism.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Jinumon

Is there any rhyme or reason to the costs assigned to weapons, or is it all arbitrary?

Specifically, I'm referring to Ultratech. Modern weapons can be mostly equated to their real-world counterparts in cost, but for the longest time, I've been curious as to whether or not there is a system for assigning prices. I've tried creating weapons as advantages and finding a conversion for CP and G$, I've tried lengthy 8+ variable systems of equations, and nothing that I have

I believe there is a system for calculating costs for Ultratech weapons. However, it has nothing to do with character pts. The weapons in UT almost certainly were not designed as Gadgets using the Powers system.

If you want to to design UT energy weapons there is an article by David Pulver in (I think )Pyramid #37 called "Laser and Blaster Design".

Just to emphasize it again. Equipment in UT is bought as gear for $ and not as Gadgets for cp. The costs in $ may be arbitrary at their roots. The future as seen through Gurps is only an eductated guess as restrained by the necessities of game design and desires to cover many different sorts of fictional futures.

You could try building weapons as Gadgets but I won't swear to you that option is balanced either. If you feel you just _have_ to convert cp to $ look at the rules on B.26 in the textbox. You're actually trying to do the opposite and I won't swear this would work either.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

You could try building weapons as Gadgets but I won't swear to you that option is balanced either. If you feel you just _have_ to convert cp to $ look at the rules on B.26 in the textbox. You're actually trying to do the opposite and I won't swear this would work either.

Why not just use the Metatronic Generators rules in that case?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why not just use the Metatronic Generators rules in that case?

I've read the article but never fully grokked it. Complex systems of optional rules seldom actually appeal to me.

[Anaraxes]

There is no assumption in the GURPS price lists that item costs are a matter for game balance. It's just not true that some weapon costs more just because it has better stats, and that somehow money is scarce enough that it's difficult for a character to acquire it until they "level up", so the new gear makes them powerful according to the official level plan.

Modern prices are supposed to be researched. Obviously, future tech prices have to be made up, but they're trying to take guesses about how hard the tech is to make, not on how much damage it does, plus or minus some bucks for LC, etc.

In a lot of games, money simply isn't a balancing factor anyway.

[GodBeastX]

Most of the prices (Not all) are based upon Economics (B514).

In theory, if you, the creator of the object, get paid X per day and it takes Y days to make the object. The object's value should be X * Y and figuring it prices for materials and failure and such. That's essentially the gist of it.

You'll find that math all over the GURPS books if you dig into it awhile.