Ripping Out Someone's Heart

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

I heard many years ago that there were experiments with using glass scaples in the us for just that reason. The problem was that they were too fragile and tended to leave glass fragments where the scaples hit bone. Not to mention dropping accidents making them hazardous for the surgeons.

I wonder what could be done with today's newer and stronger glasses? Of course, we're also able to make sharper metals too.

Obsidian is tough enough to not shatter into thousands of pieces so easily, but the main lroblem would be convincing surgeons to change materials from modern steel and lasers to what is basically stone-age tech. Seriously, it's sharper than surgical steel, but I dpn't know of any stats for it in GURPS terms.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Of course the Mayans were rumored to do this in one slice of a glass knife.

The mayans are only "rumored" to do it in one slice by pop culture. They were more for strangling and drowning (or child sacrifice). The Aztecs cut out hearts, but not in one "slice".

The sacrifice-ee was drugged and bent backwards over a block into a position that spread the ribs more up and basically stabilized the torso. They would then cut through the abdomen - because obsidian knives shatter on bone :p

[Bruno]

I speak English good :p

"spread ribs up" = rocking back the fused, rigid part of the torso. If I'm communicating at all.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I speak English good :p

"spread ribs up" = rocking back the fused, rigid part of the torso. If I'm communicating at all.

It's not 'spread' in that case (spreading would imply the ribs were getting further away from one another).

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

What would it take to rip someone's heart out of their chest (killing them, unless they have some exotic advantage) in RAW GURPS? I know the heart is normally -5 to hit, although this is probably more difficult than just hitting the heart, and involves targeting the area with a fist, breaking through the rib cage, finding the heart within, and ripping it out of the chest cavity. Since the fist generally does crushing damage, by RAW it doesn't seem like there'd be any wounding modifier, although in this instance the fist is acting more like an impaling weapon.

Instant kills happen at -HPx5, same as for decapitation.

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

I know that to do this requires superhuman ST, so the next question would be: how much ST to do this to an average human?

Assuming a ST10/HP10 target, you'd need to do 60 injury. Minimum ST to unfailingly do this is thereby ST 570. Minimum ST to do so consistently is thereby ST 150.

Presuming they aren't wearing armor.

[Mr_Sandman]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Instant kills happen at -HPx5, same as for decapitation.

Assuming a ST10/HP10 target, you'd need to do 60 injury. Minimum ST to unfailingly do this is thereby ST 570. Minimum ST to do so consistently is thereby ST 150.

Presuming they aren't wearing armor.

You don't need to do 6xHT at once to decapitate. Any fatal cut to the neck can result in decapitation at the GM's option.

I'd say the same could hold for heart ripping. If you can target the vitals and you cause a death check that is failed, GMs option to allow heart-ripping. It's a special effect.

If I were the GM, I might rule that you have to do at least HT damage to the victim, to represent putting your hand into his chest. Certainly if you walk up to a healthy victim, do 2xHT damage bare handed with a lethal strike or pressure secrets, and your victim misses his death check, I'd feel more than comfortable allowing you to say that you are holding his heart.

[Anthony]

Absent a cutting implement or ability, I suspect that simply punching a hole in someone's rib cage big enough to let you pull the heart out will also pulp the heart, so that pretty much puts this all in the superpowers range right there. If you have a proper cutting implement, IME it's fairly practical to split the breast of a chicken with a knife, but takes multiple seconds, so someone with a ST of 50 or so can probably do the same to a human chest.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

I know that to do this requires superhuman ST, so the next question would be: how much ST to do this to an average human?

This is not a question of ST. Ripping out the heart requires at least the following steps:

1) Create a hole in the chest large enough for a hand clenching a heart, without damaging the heart in the process.

2) Grasping ahold of the heart without destroying it.

3) Sever all the tissues connecting the heart to the body (including all those pesky blood vessels), again without damaging the heart.

4) Pull the heart out through the hole.

I don't know of any particular weaknesses in the tissues of the chest that would allow (1) or (3) to happen simple with force - you would need a cutting or perhaps impaling attack to make these happen.

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Also, ignoring RAW, because it doesn't like insta-kill attacks and I'm less hostile to the idea of them, how much damage does the heart really need to "cripple" or destroy it? For instance, the eye takes HP/10 to be blinded, and double that to be destroyed. As a house rule, if I wanted to treat the heart in a similar manner, for the purposes of injury (including being ripped out), what would be a reasonably realistic way to do this technique then, and how much HP of injury could a heart withstand?

You are not trying to destroy the heart - your description requires an intact heart and a ruined chest cavity. I would say that step (1) above requires depleting the victims full HT at least, assuming perfect technique. I would think that step (3) above would probably likewise require at least HP/2 - You are talking about 100+ square inches of cutting! I do not think even Pressure Secrets would do this - that skill seems more suited to the inverse problem of destroying the heart while leaving the rest of the chest cavity intact!

[Anthony]

And overall, I'd stat this ability up as:

Perk: Fatality
When you kill someone with a blow that does at least HPx1 total injury, you may perform some over the top killing blow (defined when you buy the perk), such as ripping his still-beating heart out of his chest. Other than being potentially useful for intimidation, this has no mechanical effect. The GM may require the blow be targeted at a specific hit location, usually vitals, neck, or skull.

Side point: one of those traditional fatalities is punching someone in the nose and driving fragments into the brain. As far as I know this is totally mythical, but how would you do it? Best guess is something like 'Perk: you may treat a nose shot as a skull shot'.

[Gnomasz]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Seriously, it's sharper than surgical steel, but I dpn't know of any stats for it in GURPS terms.

In GURPS terms it's an awesome arrow material that nobody I know uses (p. B275).

Originally Posted by Anthony

Side point: one of those traditional fatalities is punching someone in the nose and driving fragments into the brain. As far as I know this is totally mythical, but how would you do it? Best guess is something like 'Perk: you may treat a nose shot as a skull shot'.

Isn't it like targeting chinks in armor?