theme for a fantasy campaign

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Brett

The selkies (or stranden) originally differed from the halfings (or brocmen) originally in having some sort of adaptation for going into the surf and lagoons. Perhaps they had a large, heat-conserving build, or a tendency to deposit insulating subcutaneous fat, or deposits of brown fat for improved metabolic thermal homeostasis, or a mechanism for dealing with salt ingestion, or enlarged spleens that stored oxygen (as oxyhaemoglobin, not as gas) for extended diving, or resistance to the bends or something like that. Perhaps several of those things in modest parts. Anyway, whatever it is it is developmentally and metabolically expensive, so selkies can out-compete brocmen only where diving (deep? in salt water?) provides a lot of food. They are simply too hungry to survive in direct competition with the brocmen.

Also, probably, more carnivorous, or rather piscivorous.

Now, infants and small children are not good at diving: apart from anything else, their small bulk means rapid hypothermia except in tropical waters, and safe swimming in surf needs strength. So women with infants and toddlers, perhaps in the late stages of pregnancy too, stay on the shore or don't venture far. They gather clams from the sand and oysters from tidal rocks, build fish-traps, set traps for mud crab, net tidal waterways, and fish with lines and hooks from the beaches and headlands, hunt shorebirds, raid seabird-rookeries for eggs, and gather the scant vegetable food of the dunes. Deep-sea fishing and diving for abalone etc. on reefs is necessarily the province of men and of young women without children: in many cultures it becomes the province of men exclusively.

This is not that dissimilar to the hunter/gatherer split in men, where males go out in hunting parties and bring back the meat. Note that there is a documented pattern where the males eat the brains and the organ meats out in the field, right after the kill, and the females and children get the leaner muscle meats that they fetch home.

I was envisioning a setup where males are large because they must claim and hold territory, and the male with the better territory gets the better choice of wives and the larger number of wives. This might be somewhat like the seals that Kipling describes, and somewhat like prides. But only a minority of older, stronger, and eventually wealthier males will have this. There will be a population of ambitious young bachelors waiting their chance to come in and take over.

Will there be initiation ceremonies for the new recruits? Will some selkie communities perhaps have pederasty, comparable to the model of Athens?

Absent skin-changing magic (a late development, or a rare accomplishment) stranden cannot swim long distances like seals, or hike across the seafloor. Therefore, and because carrying a catch of fish or whatever while you are swimming is difficult anyway, they developed first sea-going boats and then ocean-going ships. The latter opened up bountiful fisheries of herring, cod, and game-fish like marlin, also sealing and whaling. These have turned out to provide a much more commodious niche than the original coastal fishing, and now support the majority of that much-increased stranden population that they made possible. Further, they led in to long-distance commerce and transoceanic migration. On the other hand, they made the stranden dependent on trade with elves, brocmen, and perhaps trolls for oak and teak for hulls, pine and fir for spars, cordage, canvas, pitch, and tar.

So the archetype of stranden society has communities in harbors and on the beach, where women live permanently and where men come and go. The women probably govern the beaches and harbors, and perhaps they own the land. Women probably collaborate with their sisters and orthocousins for mutual support/protection and to achieve scale where necessary. Matrilineal matriarchy looks like a good bet. The development of shipping is perhaps too recent for evolutionary rather than cultural adaptation. (It makes economic sense for women to be shipowners and silent partners in fishing and trade, but is probably counter to culture.)

Male social units are probably closely associated with individual vessels, with two or three men (perhaps kin or lovers) on small boats, ranging up to large bands of several score on the biggest ships. Men roam far, and are often away for long periods, moreover their return is uncertain. The seaman with a family in every port is an obvious trope for stranden, so is the "sea widow" with several husbands in different ships. The way of life of men among the stranden has always been more exposed to danger than that of the women, and has always paid its richest rewards to well-judged daring. The intrepid sailor is doubtless much admired, the wise and canny captain more so, and the sagacious commodore whose lead even the captains follow most of all. The crews of ships are often not closely related, and when they are the relationships that are known with greatest certainty are those of men to their [uterine half-]brothers and their sisters' sons. Ships lose men on voyages and recruit in far ports; the youngster who chafes under female government on shore and longs to join a rich ship with a dashing captain is a stock figure.

Or, perhaps, the crews of ships will be mostly young, and the old ship's captain will be seen as something of a failure—why didn't he come ashore?

In an earlier post I suggested stranden ships with whole communities aboard, floating villages on galleons and huge junks. If these exist they are a departure from tradition, and the women on them are deprived of their traditional base of wealth and power, forced to do men's work and face men's dangers. I can see kidnap victims in the part.

Standen men in ancient times did work that required their constantly going into the water, and they doubtless spent their days nude except perhaps for a tool-belt. Clothing might have been considered effeminate until stranden men started going in ships to where the water is too cold even for them to swim in it. The stranden talent for diving probably delayed but did not prevent the development of trawling and dredging.

Certainly net trawling would be an early development; the net may have been the original technology for this species. They might even have been the pioneers of weaving. On the other hand, wearing woven fabric might have disturbing symbolism for them—caught in a net? The wearing of skins, or of string skirts, might appeal to them more. I was somewhat thinking of them as furred, like some seals, though I suppose they could go either way; in any case I envision them as having plentiful fat for insulation.

Ships and sea-going boats would have given the stranden an unique capacity for migrating across open water. Men would have found islands (and perhaps continents) on sealing and whaling trips, and while exploring for fishing banks. They would then have had to persuade women to come with them settling: or perhaps they told the women of empty shores and the women persuaded or hired men to take them there. On larger islands and perhaps even isolated continents stranden migrants will have found river-valleys innocent of brocmen, forests without elves, grasslands without mearasmen, and (not that they'd be much interested, I think) deserts without ghuls and tundra without trolls. I would expect behavioural adaptation. The project of importing herdbeasts, horses, elvish croptrees, and brocman crops would require an entrepreneur strikingly free from cultural preconceptions.

Stranden dread storms at sea, and particularly the onshore gale. Sharks and orcas probably haunt their nightmares. Tsunamis perhaps loom large in legend.

Bill Stoddard

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Is "American two-row pale" a form of barley? That is, is this not so much fermented acorns as conventional beer supplemented with acorn meal?

I wonder how bitter it is? Diminishing the bitterness is supposedly the big challenge to eating acorns.

Bill Stoddard

There are types of acorns that are less bitter than others. Some oak trees have naturally low tanin acorns. But these are rare multi-recesive trait trees. Since squirrels like oaks trees as they are, and it takes ten years for an oak tree to bear acorns, domestication of oak trees hasn't happened yet. In a world with magic, it might be easy to domesticate Oak trees, or at least no harder than it was for pecans.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Brett

Before they got into long-distance trade and had, basically, everything, the stranden had the following to trade, according to location.

• Surplus seafood, this is a good dietary source of protein and certain essential fats, besides iodine and zinc, and vitamins A and D.

• Salt.

• Pearls.

• Mother-of-pearl and other decorative shells.

• Coral.

• Amber.

• Jet.

• Tortoiseshell.

• Seal fur, maybe.

• Narwhal ivory, maybe.

• Dyes (e.g. purple) and medicines.

Anything else?

Edible seaweeds have several uses in the real world.

It could be the selkies know medicinal plants and fish in the areas.

As the ocean shore folk, selkies would be the logical shore trade shipers, fishermen, and salvage crews.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Brett

Before they got into long-distance trade and had, basically, everything, the stranden had the following to trade, according to location.

• Surplus seafood, this is a good dietary source of protein and certain essential fats, besides iodine and zinc, and vitamins A and D.

• Salt.

• Pearls.

• Mother-of-pearl and other decorative shells.

• Coral.

• Amber.

• Jet.

• Tortoiseshell.

• Seal fur, maybe.

• Narwhal ivory, maybe.

• Dyes (e.g. purple) and medicines.

Anything else?

Well, sea otter fur, in regions where there are sea otters. Whale oil, whalebone, and ambergris. Royal purple dye. Whatever can be harvested from salt water swamps.

Bill Stoddard

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

There are types of acorns that are less bitter than others. Some oak trees have naturally low tanin acorns. But these are rare multi-recesive trait trees. Since squirrels like oaks trees as they are, and it takes ten years for an oak tree to bear acorns, domestication of oak trees hasn't happened yet. In a world with magic, it might be easy to domesticate Oak trees, or at least no harder than it was for pecans.

That doesn't answer my question about "American two-row pale."

Bill Stoddard

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by whswhs

That doesn't answer my question about "American two-row pale."

Yes, it's barley. "Two-Row" refers to the shape of the kernel.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yes, it's barley. "Two-Row" refers to the shape of the kernel.

So then this is a recipe for using acorns to supplement barley, not a recipe for acorn beer as made by elves who lack grain.

Bill Stoddard

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I was envisioning a setup where males are large because they must claim and hold territory, and the male with the better territory gets the better choice of wives and the larger number of wives. This might be somewhat like the seals that Kipling describes, and somewhat like prides. But only a minority of older, stronger, and eventually wealthier males will have this. There will be a population of ambitious young bachelors waiting their chance to come in and take over.

I see problems with that.

In the primitive situation men can't make a living on shore, because brocmen will out-compete them securing any resource that doesn't require adaptation for semi-aquatic life. And their offshore exploits produce few resources that are storable: there's no practical way for men to save up for a retirement. Men keep going back to sea until they are crippled or killed. A man can't even contribute generously to the support of his children if he must stay on the beach to "protect" his harem from mating with men playing "sneaky ****er" strategies.

Things change when the stranden develop ocean-going ships and then long-distance commerce. They acquire durable forms of wealth, and it becomes possible for a successful middle-aged man to accumulate wealth at sea, invest in something income-producing, and settle down on the shore with the money to support a wife or harem and a posse of strandlets. But by that time it is going to be a huge social change for that to seem like a desirable or admirable thing to do.

Seals do it episodically, and their savings are in the form of body size and stored fat. But that is only feasible because the cows have a short, synchronised mating season during which they must congregate because of the shortage of suitable rookeries. It's hard to get that working for a species that has proper arms and legs (so it can build and climb), takes ten years rather than six weeks to get its neonates able to feed themselves, and has to flourish in a wide range of environments with different seasonality.

I'm finding it very difficult to get synchronised and congregated ovulation to turn out to be an evolutionarily stable strategy for humans. Women keep ending up with an evolutionary incentive to sneak off. I can only do it if at least one sex is migratory and the two sexes spend most of the year apart. And even then I don't get men competing like bulls or bull seals for matings, I get them competing like stags, songbirds, or birds-of-paradise. That is, they compete for female choice, not to control mating access by driving off rival men.

Will there be initiation ceremonies for the new recruits? Will some selkie communities perhaps have pederasty, comparable to the model of Athens?

I think it extremely likely. Perhaps even comparable to the model of the so-called Sambia (actually the Foré, I think).

Or, perhaps, the crews of ships will be mostly young, and the old ship's captain will be seen as something of a failure—why didn't he come ashore?

As I said above, for retirement before being crippled to be seen as a sign of success, the society must first develop a durable form of wealth and a way to invest it for an income. Before that happens daring and sagacity at sea are going to be the outstanding status symbols among stranden men, which will make is a radical transformation in attitudes for "staying on the beach with the women" to become the mark of a successful man. That might be an interesting social change to have going on during your campaign, but it doesn't seem likely to be early enough or universal enough to affect physiology (e.g. in promoting sexual dimorphism).

Certainly net trawling would be an early development; the net may have been the original technology for this species.

Netting tidal waterways will certainly be big, also the thrown net and maybe the seine. But their fondness for diving will make the shallow trawl less of a compelling opportunity. They'll still have to trawl deep waters, but they won't have such an obvious path of development from shallow to ever deeper trawling as faces men in boats who are averse to getting wet and cold.

On the other hand, wearing woven fabric might have disturbing symbolism for them—caught in a net? The wearing of skins, or of string skirts, might appeal to them more.

Clothes will spoil their streamlining in the water and remain soggy and uncomfortable, even softening and damaging the skin, when they come out. They aren't going to have form-fitting lycra and spandex nor quick-drying nylon and microfibre.

Swimming costumes are a very late development, and are intensely silly.

I was somewhat thinking of them as furred, like some seals, though I suppose they could go either way; in any case I envision them as having plentiful fat for insulation.

All seals are furred. It is whales, walrus, manatees, and dugongs that are sparsely hairs and appear bald.

Note that if you have a large ratio of women to sexually-successful men the men will have outsized testicles, or if there is a distinct mating season they might enlarge during the season and atrophy out-of-season. Internal testes are possible, probably very near the surface in the pelvis. Or testes might be internal and non-functional between mating seasons and drop during the season.

But do note that I don't find the mating season evolutionarily plausible.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by whswhs

So then this is a recipe for using acorns to supplement barley, not a recipe for acorn beer as made by elves who lack grain.

True. Consider starting with a sugary sap such as maple sap, or sugary juices of fruit and berries such as apples and elderberries, rather than making booze out of the food crop.

[whswhs]

It seems to me that the early development of selkies [stranden] as a species has a problem if the females stay on shore with the young and the males go out to sea: What sort of male-female cooperation is there going to be? Indeed, is there going to be any? Men go out to hunt, but they only stay away for a short time, and then come back, bringing high-value nutrients and useful industrial materials to women. I can't readily see a stable cooperative relationship existing if the men go away for long journeys and only show up occasionally. There needs to be a form of durable and portable wealth to make that functional, I think—that is, trade needs to have emerged first.

Before then, there may be a considerable separation between males and females, but the males are still going to want to come on shore to rest, and to provide the females with their catch.

I'd also note that if the males take, later, to going on long voyages to trade or whale, the females will be left alone. To keep up their protein and calorie intake, they may need to develop their own fishing customs. And if their fishing grounds are valuable, they may have to fight for them, against men or halflings or even trolls who want to muscle in.

Bill Stoddard