Targeting cone attacks

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Subscribed, because I'm not real clear on cones either.

I'd like to see a good hex diagram used in a good example, too.

Yeah, because I'm still not following Langy's arguments. Sorry Langy, you lost me at aiming for/hitting a smaller portion of the target when we're talking an area-effect attack that is almost certainly using Large-Area Injury (per Area and Spreading Attacks, p. 413)

So let's go for an example. Dragon's Breath attack, 5d burning attack, 1/2D 10, Max Range 100, 5 yards wide at the end of the cone. Innate Attack-16.

We've got only one target to worry about, an SM+1 barbarian. He's standing 20 yards away.

What does the dragon roll to hit, and why?

Example two: Same, only now there is a barbarian at 20 yards as above, and a second target, his SM+0 friend, at 100 yards (utter end of extreme range) and 1 yard off to the side. What does the dragon roll to hit for both, and is it different if he picks a different primary target?

Why SM+1 example target? So I can see where it gets added. :)

Page refs would help, too.

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

Also, IMHO, the +4 bonus should only be used when hitting any part of a hex (read 1 yard diameter circle) with a smaller projectile is desired. I wouldn't allow it with a cone attack because the still-hitting-on-a-miss scatter rules handle the effect of hitting an entire hex.

Well, to be fair, the still-hitting-on-a-miss scatter rules are for all area attacks, includes cones explicitly, and scatter only takes effect if you miss. All you need to do is not miss, which is almost certainly where Gnome's question originates and why it got me involved in this thread. You won't miss a -0 to hit target with base skill, nevermind base skill+4, that often. Not in the games I play anyway. So scatter won't happen.

I'm of the option that the +4 is excluded for cones, in general, because the rule says "area-effect or explosive attack" while the rest of the box calls out "area-effect, cone, or explosive attack" for scatter.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

Yeah, because I'm still not following Langy's arguments. Sorry Langy, you lost me at aiming for/hitting a smaller portion of the target when we're talking an area-effect attack that is almost certainly using Large-Area Injury (per Area and Spreading Attacks, p. 413)

So let's go for an example. Dragon's Breath attack, 5d burning attack, 1/2D 10, Max Range 100, 5 yards wide at the end of the cone. Innate Attack-16.

We've got only one target to worry about, an SM+1 barbarian. He's standing 20 yards away.

What does the dragon roll to hit, and why?

If he wants the center of his breath attack to go through the barbarian, he rolls 16 (Skill) - 5 (Range) + 1 (SM) = 12.

Again, note that this isn't explicitly called out in the rules, but it's definitely implied.

Example two: Same, only now there is a barbarian at 20 yards as above, and a second target, his SM+0 friend, at 100 yards (utter end of extreme range) and 1 yard off to the side. What does the dragon roll to hit for both, and is it different if he picks a different primary target?

If he wants to be sure of hitting both, he has to target the further target. This would be the case even if both the barbarian and his friend were 'in-line', as the dragon could put the center of his cone through the barbarian and still miss his friend.

If the dragon wants the center of his cone to hit the farther target, then he rolls against 16 (Skill) - 10 (Range) + 0 (SM) = 6. On the other hand...

If he just wants to hit the second target with his breath attack at all, then he isn't actually targeting the actual barbarian's friend at all - instead, he's targeting a 5 yard diameter area surrounding the barbarian. This area is a circle, so the effective SM of the area is +5 (+3 for being 5 yards, +2 for being a circle). He rolls 16 (Skill) - 10 (Range) + 5 (SM) = 11 to hit the friend.

Note that if the barbarian were SM+0, then if the dragon had hit the barbarian at all he would also have hit the friend - it's only because the barb is so big that it would still miss.

Here's an pictorial representation of a similar situation. The red line represents the dragon attacking the farther target; the black line represents what could happen if the dragon attacked the closer target. If he wants to line 'em up to hit both, he has to do so properly by accepting the higher penalty.

[Gnome]

Originally Posted by Langy

If he just wants to hit the second target with his breath attack at all, then he isn't actually targeting the actual barbarian's friend at all - instead, he's targeting a 5 yard diameter area surrounding the barbarian. This area is a circle, so the effective SM of the area is +5 (+3 for being 5 yards, +2 for being a circle). He rolls 16 (Skill) - 10 (Range) + 5 (SM) = 11 to hit the friend.

I'm confused here. Are you saying he has to target the area that would be the end of the cone? Why can't he target a point along a line that goes between the two targets but will catch them both in the cone?