Close quarters sniping

[jtsmith1287]

So, in GURPS I can't seem to find any rules about firing a weapon with a scope in close quarters. I know in reality that you have to sight things accounting for distances, so at close range you would shoot low with a say, 8x scope, if you can even see your target (The zoom would make it difficult to find your target without keeping both eyes open, blah blah...) it's just rough.

So, is there a firing from the hip rule, or anything that explains how this works, or do you just pretend everything works fine, and those with sniper rifles are just blowing people away at close range?

Oh, and when I say close quarters, I don't actually mean "C" close. Just... like 1-5 yards close.

[vierasmarius]

First, remember that a scope requires seconds of Aim equal to the bonus it provides. For fixed scopes this is mandatory for any Aimed fire; variable scopes can use a lower magnification, resulting in a quicker Aim and lower bonus. Realistically, switching magnification should probably take a Ready maneuver, unless the gun has smart optics of some sort (I'm not a gun expert, of course, so could be mistaken on the difficulty of switching magnification mid-zoom). When an attacker is already mere yards away, an extra second of Aim may be a second you don't have.

Moving into house rule territory, something I've considered is to make a gun's Acc apply only to canceling the range penalty, rather than giving an overall bonus. This gives high-Acc weapons a clear niche at long range, while preventing head-popping aimed shots at point-blank range.

Anecdote: Playing in a sci-fi / horror game, my engineer with barely-above-default Beam Weapons skill could consistently amputate limbs at five yards with a laser pistol. It was kinda fun, but pretty much destroyed any hope of suspense. And that was only Acc 6; I'd hate to see what a laser carbine could do.

[ClayDowling]

Anyone trying to use a scope for those kinds of ranges shouldn't have a firearm. Take their gun and give them a crayon, because they can't be trusted with sharp objects.

If the target is at 1 yard, there's a bulk penalty to account for. 5 yards is the sort of pistol range you really don't need to aim for. I'm a lousy shot and I can put a bullet into a tin can at least once a second at that range. With a rifle, conscious aiming effort really shouldn't factor in.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by ClayDowling

Anyone trying to use a scope for those kinds of ranges shouldn't have a firearm. Take their gun and give them a crayon, because they can't be trusted with sharp objects.

If the target is at 1 yard, there's a bulk penalty to account for. 5 yards is the sort of pistol range you really don't need to aim for. I'm a lousy shot and I can put a bullet into a tin can at least once a second at that range. With a rifle, conscious aiming effort really shouldn't factor in.

If you want to make, say, a headshot at 5 yards...aiming is attractive. Game-mechanically at least.

[gilbertocarlos]

With a x8 scope you CAN aim and shoot at 5 yards, but you will need 3 seconds aiming, in this time the enemy can run out of sight or attack you. A lateral movement of 2 yards should be enough to get out of sight.

Or you could just do an AoA for +1 to hit and don't bother with the scope or aiming time.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

If you want to make, say, a headshot at 5 yards...aiming is attractive. Game-mechanically at least.

Not in a practical sense it isn't. At five yards a scope is worse than useless - the time it takes to even TRY and use it is time your target will spend running away or killing you. Even if you look through you are not going to get something meaningful - 8x at that distance you are not going to be sure what you are seeing, which means the aim is useless. Many scopes designed for tactical/urban sniping include secondary "fast" sights for close range shooting, and if all you have is the scope then your best bet is just to sight down the barrel.

I am assuming that this is about an untrained and/or civilian shooter (hunting rifle?), as a military shooter will either have a secondary optic or will switch to a sidearm in such a situation. Military snipers are trained to ignore their rifles for close targets, immediately transitioning to the pistol.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Not in a practical sense it isn't. At five yards a scope is worse than useless - the time it takes to even TRY and use it is time your target will spend running away or killing you. Even if you look through you are not going to get something meaningful - 8x at that distance you are not going to be sure what you are seeing, which means the aim is useless. Many scopes designed for tactical/urban sniping include secondary "fast" sights for close range shooting, and if all you have is the scope then your best bet is just to sight down the barrel.

I am assuming that this is about an untrained and/or civilian shooter (hunting rifle?), as a military shooter will either have a secondary optic or will switch to a sidearm in such a situation. Military snipers are trained to ignore their rifles for close targets, immediately transitioning to the pistol.

Aiming with an 8x scope is, indeed not attractive at that range (at least if you interpret the rule as Aim not working at all in less than 3 seconds rather than not getting the scope bonus).

Aiming in general, however, is somewhat.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Anecdote: Playing in a sci-fi / horror game, my engineer with barely-above-default Beam Weapons skill could consistently amputate limbs at five yards with a laser pistol. It was kinda fun, but pretty much destroyed any hope of suspense. And that was only Acc 6; I'd hate to see what a laser carbine could do.

Mooks with laser carbines are hilarious. I once had one shoot a dinosaur laser out of a PC's hands. At fairly long range. (The PC had power armor that made the laser useless for wounding them.)

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Moving into house rule territory, something I've considered is to make a gun's Acc apply only to canceling the range penalty, rather than giving an overall bonus. This gives high-Acc weapons a clear niche at long range, while preventing head-popping aimed shots at point-blank range.

This is so brilliant I marvel that it hasn't already shown up as RAW in some supplement or other.

It does seem, however, that a long arm should have a higher accuracy than a pistol or hold-out weapon when used in close quarters. Maybe amend the house rule to something like "A gun's Acc only applies to canceling range penalties, down to a minimum of its Bulk Penalty. When used to cancel range penalties, it is assumed the gun is held such that its range-penalty-reducing technology is brought to bare. To make use of the "Bluk Acc", one need merely take an Aim maneuver."

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

This is so brilliant I marvel that it hasn't already shown up as RAW in some supplement or other.

It does seem, however, that a long arm should have a higher accuracy than a pistol or hold-out weapon when used in close quarters. Maybe amend the house rule to something like "A gun's Acc only applies to canceling range penalties, down to a minimum of its Bulk Penalty. When used to cancel range penalties, it is assumed the gun is held such that its range-penalty-reducing technology is brought to bare. To make use of the "Bluk Acc", one need merely take an Aim maneuver."

...Uh, how does that benefit long arms? Long arms have larger bulk penalties than pistols.