Annihilation on Trojan Horse

[uruca]

I have a question about this play that we had tomorrow!

Player A defeated the Shrieking Geek and when he was about to draw the treasures, Player B played Trojan Horse with Plutonium Dragon... then, Player A played Annihilation on Trojan Horse and we didn't know what to do, because I remember reading here in the forum that one guy played Annihilation on the monster and the Wandering Monster went back to the hand of the other Player. Does it work the same way?

I don't know if:
- Player B have to play the Trojan Horse before playing the monster to see if the Player A was going to cancel that or if he plays both of the cards. If he end up doing this, we have the same scenario of the Wandering Monster... If he cancels the Trojan Horse does the monster stay on the table? Or the player A HAVE to cancel the monster and the Trojan Horse goes back to the hand of Player B?

If I wasn't clear enough, please, by all means, say it that I'll try explaining in another way!

Cheers! =)

[Pleh]

Well, Annihilation, when played immediately on a card that has just come into play, will undo all of its effects. Problem is that Trojan Horse allows the player playing the card to choose what effects it has. So timing is kinda important here.

1) Played immediately after Trojan Horse is played, it will prevent the monster from ever seeing the combat.

2) Played immediately after the monster has hit the table, if played on Trojan Horse, it should undo the entering of the monster to the combat and the monster should go back to the player's hand.

3) Played immediately after the monster has hit the table, if played on the monster, might still allow Trojan Horse to use its other effect (the one where no monster is played in the combat; no treasure, I believe I remember?). That's the part I'm most iffy on.

Hope that explanation made sense.

[Clipper]

The player of the card can't change the method of play to get around Annihilation so method 3 doesn't seem to work. The player of Trojan Horse should announce which method he is using when he plays the card. Annihilation should then be played to cancel that. Whether the monster card has been played or not seems irrelevant.

[Pleh]

Well, somewhere in the back of my mind I was thinking that Annihilation only undoes all the effects of a card if it is played immediately after the card it is targeting is played. I may be getting confused, but it made me think that if there was a long enough time lapse after the monster hit the table and then you annihilate Trojan Horse that the card would be tossed out while its effects would not be undone because Annihilation hadn't been played immediately.

But maybe I'm getting it confused with Restraining Order at this point.

[RL]

If Annihilation is played immediately after another card is played, it cancels that card as if it had never been played.

If the person waits for a while before playing Annihilation, then the targeted card is removed from the game, but any effects that had already occurred are -not- canceled.

[uruca]

Thanks for the responses!

So let me see if I got it: Player B have to play Trojan Horse (or cards like Wandering Monster) before playing the monster, and Player A have a chance to cancel that... if the monster hits the table, then it's: a) Player A cancels Trojan Horse and the monster stays on the table; b) cancels the monster and the Trojan Horse goes back to the hand of Player B (or to the discard pile? or uses the effects that requires no monster?)

Let me know if that's the right timing and what happens in the "b" scenario! Thanks!

That's a tricky (and awesome) card!

[Clipper]

No, that's not quite right, uruca. As the monster is being played to the table as part of Trojan Horse's effect, cancelling the Trojan Horse means all its effects are cancelled, meaning the monster should never have been played and it must go back to the player's hand if it already had been. This can only be done while or immediately after Trojan Horse is resolved (and to resolve it, you play the monster, restart the combat and discard TH; or just play TH and discard it if not adding a monster).

I believe the new monster cannot be fully cancelled as it never really counts as 'just played'. It can still be Annihilated, though. In this case, you use the effect of Annihilation that removes the monster from the game, but does not reverse its effects. Thus, you are left with an empty combat, which you will win unless a player interferes, but there will be no levels nor Treasure for winning as you didn't defeat any monsters.

[uruca]

I still dunno if I understood everything. I'm assuming you can't play both cards (Trojan Horse and the monster) at the same time... You play the Trojan Horse and announce its effect and, then, play the monster. Is that right? Because in our party we're playing cards like Trojan Horse and Wandering Monsters with the monsters attached already. If I got it, then we can have these scenarios:

A) Player B plays Trojan Horse and announce that'll put a monster; before the monster hits the table he uses Annihilation on Trojan Horse, the monster stays on Player B's hand and that's it.

B) Player B plays Trojan Horse and announce that'll put a monster and do it without any manifestation on Player A's side. Then, we have Trojan Horse with the monster on the table and Player A use Annihilation on Trojan Horse. The monster goes back to Player B's hand? Stays on table? Get discarded?

C) Player B plays Trojan Horse and announce that'll put a monster and do it without any manifestation on Player A's side. Then, we have Trojan Horse with the monster on the table and Player A use Annihilation on the monster. Trojan Horse stays and the effect that doesn't require monsters? Goes back to Player B's hand? Get discarded?

I didn't get yet the scenarios B and C! And is it right the scenario A?

Thanks! =)

[Clipper]

Trojan Horse says to "Play this card, along with a Monster from your hand... Or play this card with no monster..."

Thus, the monster is part of playing Trojan Horse and they are not two separate actions. While Trojan Horse can be "just played," the monster can't be as it just came along for the ride.

So you have been playing it right, the cards are played together, but the Wandering Monster or Trojan Horse card is discarded after its effects have completed. They don't need to stay on the table during the new combat.

So by my understanding, A) is correct; B) results in the monster going back into the hand (as the card that let it be put on the table has been cancelled); and for C), Trojan Horse is discarded before the first chance you have to play Annihilation on the monster. It remains discarded and the monster is removed from the game. The new combat will be over after players are given reasonable time to interfere, but Trojan Horse still had its full effect of denying Treasure from the first combat.

The situation I describe for C) is similar to playing Trojan Horse without a monster, except for the fact that a new combat has started, so people might be able to play cards to extend the new combat, such as Wandering Monster.

Edit: One more thing to note where I might not be clear: In both cases A) and B), the player will get the Treasure from the original combat. In case C), the player doesn't.

[uruca]

Now I get it! Awesome explanation!

Thanks everyone that responded, specially to Clipper that nailed it! Appreciate that!

Cheers!