Hell in Dungeon Fantasy

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

I don't have trouble understandting the emtaphor, but it may not work for you.

I am not acting as a 'proponent' of any religion.

Can we please get back on topic?

I meant that as follower and by such I thought that if you believed such that you would be able to explain it to me in such a way as I could understand.

I am a bit fascinated by those aspects of religion that aren't obvious or easy to explain to non believers. Those are the things that separate made up "unreal" stuff from the verisimilitude I'm always looking for in my made up religions.

I'm not trying to bring up real beliefs for any other reason, honestly.... At least this time I have no ulterior motive. :)

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I meant that as follower and by such I thought that if you believed such that you would be able to explain it to me in such a way as I could understand.

I am a bit fascinated by those aspects of religion that aren't obvious or easy to explain to non believers. Those are the things that separate made up "unreal" stuff from the verisimilitude I'm always looking for in my made up religions.

I'm not trying to bring up real beliefs for any other reason, honestly.... At least this time I have no ulterior motive. :)

I am not sure I'd call myself a 'follower.'

If you really want more info on Hell...

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

But of course various Christian sects have their own ideas about all this.


Lewis describes Hell quite differently in another of his books, The Great Divorce. As in any book of the kind, what you have in that one is a literary imagining of perdition.

I tend to think of all human-to-human descriptions of the afterlife as being metaphorical by neccessity. We can use symbols to explain ideas, but this is not the same as actual experience.

Anyhoo, we really are drifting.


DF Hell might be a place that even the living can reach by gates or even just going down really deep holes, some sort of a huge cavern or dungeon filled with evil monstrobes and cursed treasures. Lots of fire, too.

Or ice.

[Greg 1]

I handle it by making the devils of hell sadists, which is why they torture people who go there.

They care nothing about justice, which is why being particularly evil might get you a better position in hell than if you hadn't been so bad.

I make it so that the good gods can't help it that people go to hell. They aren't powerful enough to stop it. If they willingly let people go to hell, their claims to being "good" would be hollow.

The limitations on the good gods also explains why they need help from PCs. By kicking demon butt, the PCs are making a genuine difference in the war between good and evil.

Harrowing Hell, that is, hackin' your way in to set poor souls free, is a very fine dungeon adventure for good PCs.

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Greg 1

I make it so that the good gods can't help it that people go to hell. They aren't powerful enough to stop it. If they willingly let people go to hell, their claims to being "good" would be hollow.

Not the way I see it. The way I see it, even if you're powerful enough to do otherwise, forcing people who want hell for their afterlife to go to heaven instead would make their claims to be "good" ring hollow.

[Greg 1]

Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans

Not the way I see it. The way I see it, even if you're powerful enough to do otherwise, forcing people who want hell for their afterlife to go to heaven instead would make their claims to be "good" ring hollow.

My DF Hell isn't a place where many people want to go. It is full of mean creatures and pitchforks and there is way too much fire.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans

Not the way I see it. The way I see it, even if you're powerful enough to do otherwise, forcing people who want hell for their afterlife to go to heaven instead would make their claims to be "good" ring hollow.

Protecting idiots from themselves is often called good though. Good gods aren't supposed to yell, "I told you so!" from on high.

[Flyndaran]

I wonder about ideas of hell from those that naturally live underground. Might they not consider the sky, the place of horror and torment, and underground the safe haven?

Mole hell is a series of flat plateaus with impenetrable ground connected by rickety rope bridges.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Protecting idiots from themselves is often called good though. Good gods aren't supposed to yell, "I told you so!" from on high.

Who says they are yelling that?

Maybe they simply respect the free will of mortals, and allow the mortals to choose between good and evil?

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Who says they are yelling that?

Maybe they simply respect the free will of mortals, and allow the mortals to choose between good and evil?

Respecting free will does not mean refusing to help when needed. And when is it more needed that when falling to hell?

I respect your free will, but I will still try to keep you from walking out into busy traffic. One could easily argue that even if they steadfastly say so, they can't truly understand their "choice" to go to hell. I know that in real life this kind of "I know better than you" judgement is really dangerous and skiffy. But hell is a whole different story.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Respecting free will does not mean refusing to help when needed. And when is it more needed that when falling to hell?

I respect your free will, but I will still try to keep you from walking out into busy traffic. One could easily argue that even if they steadfastly say so, they can't truly understand their "choice" to go to hell. I know that in real life this kind of "I know better than you" judgement is really dangerous and skiffy. But hell is a whole different story.

Why are you assuming that the gods refuse to help? I see no reason to think that. These are DF style gods, right? So I'm guessing the 'good guy gods' sponsor holy heroes like paladins, perform miracles, direct their priests to warn mortals away from the paths of Evil, etc. That is help, Flyn.


Are you suggesting that the gods should try to mind-control all mortals to prevent anyone from ever making evil choices? That sounds pretty evil to me. But I doubt they could manage it, anyway. These gods are obviously not all-powerful (unless you want to deal with the problem of multiple omnipotent deities (and I don't think that would work well or be in the spirit of DF). What more could they do?