Starting Gear with Pyramid 3/44 Abstract Wealth

[sir_pudding]

I'm considering using the rules in Abstract Wealth in a future campaign, and I've noticed the article doesn't really address any equipment that the character starts with (that would normally be purchased out of Starting Wealth). Just having them roll for stuff at the beginning of the game seems to be both annoying (in terms of "a whole bunch of rolls") and not really mechanically supported (the penalty for multiple purchases shouldn't apply to equipment the character has bought over years). Has anybody used these rules? Do you have a solution?

[apoc527]

Hmmm...I've also considered using those rules as I think they are quite useful for "modern" economies where you can use consumer credit to make larger purchases and then pay them off over time. (Note that this is one reason why Cost of Living should start to increase as a percentage of income again by TL8--people at TL8 need credit to buy TL8 stuff, and that means a higher CoL due to debt payments, etc).

Anyway, to answer your question, I think I'd give them the 20% starting wealth as if I was NOT using the Abstract Wealth system, and then only start making Wealth checks once the game actually started. After all, the Abstract Wealth rules are really intended for in-game use when time is measured...if I have the 20-30 years before the typical adventurer starts "adventuring" then the Wealth rolls kind of break down...

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by apoc527

Anyway, to answer your question, I think I'd give them the 20% starting wealth as if I was NOT using the Abstract Wealth system, and then only start making Wealth checks once the game actually started.

I thought about that and I see two problems:

1. Normally Starting Wealth that's not used for gear is available as spending money but with Abstract Wealth that's meaningless. I suppose you could convert whatever you have leftover into a Windfall, but it seems inelegant.
2. Abstract Wealth's Wealth trait replaces the Wealth advantages and disadvantages, so there's no multiplier to Starting Wealth.

I think a more elegant solution would be give a fixed number of free purchases as starting equipment. Perhaps something like: any number of Trivial Purchases, up to 12 Cheap purchases, and either 6 normal purchases or 3 normal purchases and one expensive purchas (up to maybe 1.5-2x threshold, not sure). Reasonable sets of equipment (a suit of armor, horse and tack, a firearm with accessories and ammunition) can count a single purchase.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I think a more elegant solution would be give a fixed number of free purchases as starting equipment. Perhaps something like: any number of Trivial Purchases, up to 12 Cheap purchases, and either 6 normal purchases or 3 normal purchases and one expensive purchase. Reasonable sets of equipment (a suit of armor, horse and tack, a firearm with accessories and ammunition) can count a single purchase.

That's how I intended to handle starting gear in Modern Action RPG.

A potential problem that I foresaw, is if one PC buys up his Wealth level real high.

Each Wealth level is a whole order of magnitude, so it's very possible to buy two levels of general Wealth and a further level of specialized starting equipment Wealth, so as to be 1000 times richer than the average PC, meaning that if an average PC is allowed one class E item, four class D items and an unlimited number of class C items, then this Wealth-specialized PC is allowed an unlimited number of class E items, four class F items and one class G item. So he can supply the other PCs with all the class E items they want (whereas on their own they can only have one each).

My solution is to focus on the lack of flexibility and dignity for the other PCs. They don't call the shots. They take what their rich friend gives to them, bowing and nodding and scraping. Sure, it's nice, but it may not be exactly what they wanted. It may not be optimal.

Suboptimal purchases can always be attempted rectified during play. But that's subject to world restrictions, availability, and the opportunity and time to make such purchases. Some sessions start when the crap hits the fan (the very first session of a campaign may be extra likely to start that way). Then there is no time to go shop for specifics.

Thinking some more about it, suboptimal purchases are particularly likely with very techncial equipment, where the Wealth-specialized PC simply lacks the know-how to understand the fine distinctions that are important to the skill-specialized (or otherwise gear-use-specialized) PCs. And so he goes and buys the almost right stuff, instead of the exactly right stuff.

So you should still use your one class E item allowance. For your most important piece of kit.

[Celti]

For an Action/Cyberpunk game we've handled it by granting normal starting wealth, but you have to use it or lose it. We have the 80/20% split is partially in effect; if you only spend the 20%, you've got all the bits and pieces of whatever lifestyle your Wealth and Status would convey and don't have to detail everything. If you go beyond that, you only have what you have listed in your equipment list, and don't have anything to fall back on if that goes boom.

[SCAR]

I liked the idea of Abstract Wealth, but I found the numbers to be screwed up (for my liking).

To clarify; the higher your level of Wealth, the better chance you have of rolling more Successes, AND the higher your Threshold, which multiplies the benefits (or disadvantages).
Not only that, but the Threshold values don't seem to following even progressions across TLs and Wealth Scores.

Examples:
TL8, Rolling 5 times (1 Month's purchasing), for Normal Purchases, ignoring Criticals (for ease of calculation).

Average Wealth (10) [0] with Threshold ($400), rolls on average 1.99 successes out of 5, giving $800.
Wealthy (12) [+20] with Threshold ($2000), rolls on average 2.88 successes, giving $5760.
Working Poor (7) [-20] with Threshold ($40), rolls on average 0.79 successes, giving $31.60.


The basics of my alternative (a WIP) is to use standard Starting Wealth (with the 20%/80%) split, a Threshold of 2% of Personal SW for Normal Purchases, always rolling from a base of 10.
So you get your 20% personal starting wealth for gear.

[Polydamas]

Those numbers look about right: a Wealthy person in the standard rules has access to about five times as much money as an Average person. Similarly, a Poor person in the standard rules has access to about a fifth as much, and it is not unreasonable that someone very poor has trouble rounding up cash for unexpected expenses.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Those numbers look about right: a Wealthy person in the standard rules has access to about five times as much money as an Average person. Similarly, a Poor person in the standard rules has access to about a fifth as much, and it is not unreasonable that someone very poor has trouble rounding up cash for unexpected expenses.

It is possible to be poor enough that pennies become real money again. The old question of wealth: how much money would it take for you put your naked hand in a public toilet?
We really poor might go for change. :)

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Those numbers look about right: a Wealthy person in the standard rules has access to about five times as much money as an Average person. Similarly, a Poor person in the standard rules has access to about a fifth as much, and it is not unreasonable that someone very poor has trouble rounding up cash for unexpected expenses.

Actually, I made a mistake on the Threshold for Wealth 12, it should be $2000, which means the Wealthy Guy has more than 7 times the wealth of the Average Guy.

The Thresholds are already proportioned to the base wealth multipliers (up to Wealthy (12) at least - see below!), Wealth 11 Thresholds are double those of Wealth 10 (as per comfortable), etc.
Except for some anomolies, TL10, Wealth 10 is $700, Wealth 9 is $325, Wealth 11 is $1500 - neither of which is the 'standard' factor of 2 which the standard wealth, and most of the other Thresholds are!

So - if the Thresholds are already (roughly) scaled for the appropriate Wealth Levels, then the increased Success rates for also having a higher target number for the Wealth Rolls, skews the values giving the Wealthy even more, and the Poor even less!

Actually, the Thesholds only match standard Wealth multipliers up to Wealthy - Very Wealthy is x20 by standard wealth, and x10 for Abstract Wealth; Filthy Rich was x100, now x20; after that both scale by x10 per level. I'm not sure I understand how the Abstract Wealth Thresholds have been arrived at.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

A potential problem that I foresaw, is if one PC buys up his Wealth level real high.

So he can supply the other PCs with all the class E items they want (whereas on their own they can only have one each).

How is that any different than if one PC buys up Wealth with the Basic Set rules and bankrolls the party? I don't see any thing about Abstract Wealth that is unique in this regard. At any rate, I don't really consider it a problem (although I'm sure you'd consider how I handle it to be either insane or idiotic (perhaps both?)).

Originally Posted by Celti

For an Action/Cyberpunk game we've handled it by granting normal starting wealth,

What do you do to replace the multiplier (or divisor) from Wealth?

Originally Posted by SCAR

To clarify; the higher your level of Wealth, the better chance you have of rolling more Successes, AND the higher your Threshold, which multiplies the benefits (or disadvantages).

Why do you feel this is a problem? If the rich have better access to credit and deeper reserves shouldn't they find it easier to make proportionately larger purchases?

Not only that, but the Threshold values don't seem to following even progressions across TLs and Wealth Scores.

I think it's a function of Starting Wealth, the Score 10 thresholds are all equal to the equivalent starting wealth times a factor that's within one hundredth of .02. I suppose it might just be 1/50th of Starting Wealth with really weird rounding or some kind of series.