[Social Engineering] Using Disguise / impersonation, and the modifiers involved

[PK]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Yes, impersonification of specific living (or historical) people is covered in SE. I'm asking for a clarification what the modifiers are if the character tries merely not to be oneself, or to be a specific 'made up' persona consistently (not trying to impersonate anyone in particular).

I'd treat that as Cultivating a Persona, p. 61.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Yes, impersonification of specific living (or historical) people is covered in SE. I'm asking for a clarification what the modifiers are if the character tries merely not to be oneself, or to be a specific 'made up' persona consistently (not trying to impersonate anyone in particular).

That's the "assuming a persona" part. It's -3 if you haven't practiced the persona, or unmodified if you have, or if you buy it as a Rehearsed Role. And in addition, you're immune to the -5 or -10 penalty to fool people who know the person well; the "person" is whatever you portray them as being.

Bill Stoddard

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by PK

I'd treat that as Cultivating a Persona, p. 61.

Not exactly. That works if the personality is an enhanced, exaggerated, or modulated version of your natural self, such as any competent politician or stage performer cultivates. It doesn't apply if you're trying to be someone different. That case is sort of intermediate between impersonation and cultivating a persona.

Bill Stoddard

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by whswhs

That's the "assuming a persona" part. It's -3 if you haven't practiced the persona, or unmodified if you have, or if you buy it as a Rehearsed Role. And in addition, you're immune to the -5 or -10 penalty to fool people who know the person well; the "person" is whatever you portray them as being.

Bill Stoddard

So there's neither an additional bonus nor an extra penalty if said persona is made up by the acting character, as opposed to being 'seen' and copied from elsewhere? (I was expecting a bonus, but +0 certainly doesn't look implausible.)

[PK]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Not exactly. That works if the personality is an enhanced, exaggerated, or modulated version of your natural self, such as any competent politician or stage performer cultivates. It doesn't apply if you're trying to be someone different. That case is sort of intermediate between impersonation and cultivating a persona.

I may have misunderstood Molokh -- I thought he was saying that both of your suggested rules (the -5 for a specific person or the -3 for a "random" one) were for too specific a persona, which led me to think he was talking about a persona based on oneself.

[PK]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

So there's neither an additional bonus nor an extra penalty if said persona is made up by the acting character, as opposed to being 'seen' and copied from elsewhere? (I was expecting a bonus, but +0 certainly doesn't look implausible.)

Yes, you get +2.

Assuming a false identity of a specific person is Acting at -5. If you're not impersonating a specific person, but are instead making up a generic false persona, you roll Acting at -3, which is a +2 difference. The +2 comes from the fact that you're making up this new persona yourself. (See p. 37.)

If the persona is actually based on your own personality, just exaggerated for enhanced competence and such, then you instead use the rules for cultivating a persona on p. 61. Is this more what you were looking for? I admit that I'm somewhat confused about what your actual needs are, here.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by PK

I may have misunderstood Molokh -- I thought he was saying that both of your suggested rules (the -5 for a specific person or the -3 for a "random" one) were for too specific a persona, which led me to think he was talking about a persona based on oneself.

Well, I'm not sure where the lines are. Basically:
The idea is that one persona is the 'natural self', while another is essentially tailored from scratch for the purpose of having several identities. Thus, Disguise for different looks and Acting for different walk/talk; Mimicry if necessary, though speaking is kinda secondary for both personæ, and Acting is preferable.

As far as cultivating a persona goes, the main difference is that Persona B is not 'Self, But BETTER!', but rather a different, synthetic persona that is meant to not be recognised as Persona A. Kinda like the case with Selena Kyle / Catwoman, but in totally mundane context. (No face-covering mask; no capital-S Split Personality; no superheroics.)

It essentially is correct to refer to it as a stage persona, but the emphasis is on making it from scratch and dissimilar from the owner.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

As far as cultivating a persona goes, the main difference is that Persona B is not 'Self, But BETTER!', but rather a different, synthetic persona that is meant to not be recognised as Persona A. Kinda like the case with Selena Kyle / Catwoman, but in totally mundane context. (No face-covering mask; no capital-S Split Personality; no superheroics.)

It essentially is correct to refer to it as a stage persona, but the emphasis is on making it from scratch and dissimilar from the owner.

That is not what "persona" means in "cultivating a persona."

There are three cases:

* You are pretending to be a specific other person who actually exists.
* You are pretending to be a person different from yourself whom you have made up.
* You are pretending to be yourself with more favorable traits.

You seem to be talking about case 2, since you are envisioning having multiple instances of it. For case 2, if you have not prepared the role and practiced it, you are at -3 to Acting; if you have spent the play time on doing so, or if you have bought Rehearsed Role, you have no penalty; AND you are exempt from the -5 or -10 penalty to impersonate someone whom other people know well, which is where actual impersonation takes its big hit.

Bill Stoddar

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That's because a "similar species" in fiction is often less cosmetically different than a different race. Consider the great challenge of impersonating a Vulcan...

So that would imply that Human->Vulcan or Human->tlhIngan disguises are an easy -2, while Narn<->Human, tlhIngan->Human, Batarian<->Human, Batarian<->Prothean, Human<->Prothean etc. would be -4? (I'm not trying for something as outrageous as masking as a Horta.)

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

1 to 5 It's hard to set a set value because different caucasians would find it harder or more difficult to, say disguise themselves as Japanese, depending on facial features.

Hmm. Any ideas on benchmarking that?

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I'd go with a flat -5

Hmm. On one hand, I want to agree. On the other, it basically means that it trumps all other possible penalties.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Older is easier than younger. A lot easier.

True, that.

[dcarson]

Originally Posted by whswhs

That is not what "persona" means in "cultivating a persona."

There are three cases:

* You are pretending to be a specific other person who actually exists.
* You are pretending to be a person different from yourself whom you have made up.
* You are pretending to be yourself with more favorable traits.

Bill Stoddar

How about yourself but with less favorable traits? The classic of playing dumb or being overweight instead of very muscled?