Hard Science setting

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Or not. To decide whether something is possible in hard sci-fi you almost need to be a scientist yourself.

Well given that one of the examples of a hard science fiction author once wrote a novel in which the protagonist was a "human" engineered to live on a neutron start, whether something is possible may not be that big a deal in hard science fiction.

[Malenfant]

I think realism is important for "hard" SF, but to me at least the real hallmarks of Hard SF are internal consistency, and fully thought out consequences for everything. Realism comes out naturally from both of those (reality is consistent, and there are consequences for actions). Dragon's Egg fits the bill in that regard at least. Hard SF also tends to ask more "what if" questions (which to me is what SF is about in the first place) than soft SF. That's why Dragon's Egg would be considered hard SF (it wasn't about humans living on neutron stars, it was about humans contacting a race of creatures that lived on a neutron star).

Soft SF to me doesn't care about those things so much, if at all.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

I think realism is important for "hard" SF, but to me at least the real hallmarks of Hard SF are internal consistency, and fully thought out consequences for everything. Realism comes out naturally from both of those (reality is consistent, and there are consequences for actions). Dragon's Egg fits the bill in that regard at least. Hard SF also tends to ask more "what if" questions (which to me is what SF is about in the first place) than soft SF. That's why Dragon's Egg would be considered hard SF (it wasn't about humans living on neutron stars, it was about humans contacting a race of creatures that lived on a neutron star).

Soft SF to me doesn't care about those things so much, if at all.

I wasn't talking about Dragon's Egg. I was talking about Flux. And Dragon's Egg is a good example of hard science fiction stories in which nobody does anything much and it's all about looking at the pretty concepts. Which can make for a nice change of pace, but is no basis for an ongoing campaign.

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I wasn't talking about Dragon's Egg. I was talking about Flux. And Dragon's Egg is a good example of hard science fiction stories in which nobody does anything much and it's all about looking at the pretty concepts. Which can make for a nice change of pace, but is no basis for an ongoing campaign.

Funny, I seem to recall that the humans were doing a fair bit of investigating and communicating in Dragon's Egg. Though for an RPG one would probably take the roles of the neutron star critters rather than the humans. I think part of the problem is that RPGs are based around "action" (i.e. combat, skill rolls, whatever), so anything lacking in that is perceived as "boring" or "not doing anything". Hard SF tends to be about exploration, investigation, and survival - not space combat and shootouts with smugglers or aliens.

(Flux is the Stephen Baxter one, right? He's one of my favourite hard SF writers - Vacuum Diagrams is a really good read with lots of RPG potential).

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

Funny, I seem to recall that the humans were doing a fair bit of investigating and communicating in Dragon's Egg.

That is what I referred to as "looking at the pretty concepts". They sit around. They watch. They talk. They watch some more. I've seen the same basic idea as Dragon's Egg, tiny beings living at a an accelerated rate who zoom past the human watching, done as a short story.

Though for an RPG one would probably take the roles of the neutron star critters rather than the humans.

Each of which does one thing and then dies.

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That is what I referred to as "looking at the pretty concepts". They sit around. They watch. They talk. They watch some more.

Well, Dragon's Egg is a book that specifically has the humans as spectators rather than as the main protagonists - hence my comment about how an RPG based on the critters would probably be more "engaging". Complaining that the humans "don't do much" in it is somewhat missing the whole point of the book. There are plenty of other hard SF stories that are focussed on humans that work better (e.g. ACC's Rendezvous with Rama, jack mcdevitt's books, alastair reynolds, etc).

But as I said, maybe part of the problem is that RPGs aren't geared so much towards social interaction, exploration and investigation, and if they lack combat they're viewed as "boring".

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Are they? One shots, maybe, but reality seems to include very few people who have serial adventures.

I think that depends a lot on the time, place, and subculture. In the 1350s or 1920s there were plenty of people having frequent adventures with physical danger. A few reporters, police, and so on have lengthy 'adventuring careers' although few gamers have been taught how to tell good stories about them.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

You say that as if having some kind of scientific background is a bad thing. The whole point of Sci-fi is that it's based on science - if it wasn't then it would just be "Fiction". That doesn't mean that everything one has to do must be as realistic as possible, but the OTU at least has so many holes and inconsistencies in it that it's a fantasy setting in space that's held together by magic. I guess that's what the old-style "Space Opera" that the OTU emulates is though.

I do? When did I say "having some kind of scientific background is a bad thing?" I said, "To properly decide what is scientifically possible in a narrative, a scientific background is needed". What is wrong with that?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

]Well, Dragon's Egg is a book that specifically has the humans as spectators rather than as the main protagonists - hence my comment about how an RPG based on the critters would probably be more "engaging". Complaining that the humans "don't do much" in it is somewhat missing the whole point of the book. There are plenty of other hard SF stories that are focussed on humans that work better (e.g. ACC's Rendezvous with Rama,

I've actually played in a game recapitulating Rendezvous with Rama. Needless to say, the scenery was very nice. I can't actually say we did anything, but we did do a lot of looking at the cool concepts.

[rust]

"Hard" science fiction is not a genre, the various genres exist in "hard" science
fiction just as well as in "soft" science fiction. There is "hard" military science
fiction, "hard" espionage science fiction, and so on, and these genres have
just as much "action" as their "soft" counterparts. To give an example, many
of the books of Tom Clancy were like Red Storm Rising near future "hard" sci-
ence fiction, and turned into a campaign they would certainly not lack action.