DF Beast Summoning and Find Familiar with GURPS

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

I think it'd be the most fun (without being unfair) to roll on the table once. Whatever you roll is what shows up. But rather than being bonded to the delver, it's an annoying little thing that follows him around and causes minor problems -- nothing that will get the delvers killed or hurt! After the adventure, the annoying critter goes away automatically, and you can try again as normal.

Ah that where the cat the leaves dead mice in your slippers went... ;)

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

No. Under no circumstances would I give someone free points just because he got a lucky roll. Bonus character points are meant to be earned via roleplaying, not because three dice happened to roll a certain way.

If anything, a critical success should let the player choose the familiar outright, rather than rolling on the table at all.

I guess you are right. It would sort of unfair in some ways to have a PC gain a lot of points while other PCs had to earn theirs. On the other hand it sorts of injects a little of mysteriousness of magic when a 250 cp wizard becomes a 300 cp wizard with a kewl familiar by having incredible luck. It sort of gives the magic is beyond the control of men feel to the game and there are times when the stars are right, the planets in line, the horoscopic energy is in sync that magic is truly powerful beyond reason. But I do get your point that having a PC gain awesomeness from a dice roll is a little unfair to the other PCS.

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

I think it'd be the most fun (without being unfair) to roll on the table once. Whatever you roll is what shows up. But rather than being bonded to the delver, it's an annoying little thing that follows him around and causes minor problems -- nothing that will get the delvers killed or hurt! After the adventure, the annoying critter goes away automatically, and you can try again as normal.

I guess is would only be fair to have a truly nasty familiar chance on a critical failure if there is also an awesome familiar with a critical success. But an annoying famiar seems like it would just get a quick lightning bolt or fireball in from a 250 cp DF wizard if the familiar is not bonded. Maybe a Remove Curse would need to be cast to remove a nasty familiar if it would harm the wizard if the familiar is killed?

[Lamech]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

No. Under no circumstances would I give someone free points just because he got a lucky roll. Bonus character points are meant to be earned via roleplaying, not because three dice happened to roll a certain way.

If anything, a critical success should let the player choose the familiar outright, rather than rolling on the table at all.

I don't see a huge issue with a little bit of extra CP. I think the training montage rules in martial arts give a free point for a crit success. And a crit fail can cost you recovery on an arm or limb which is a lot of CP... (although PC's attempt to maximize the chance of a crit success and minimize the chance of a crit fail).

[b-dog]

After playing enough DF, I would make the Find Familiar spell work like this. I would have the wizard pay the points for the power level of the familiar he wishes to have but then he would roll against a table and most likely he would het what he wants but if he rolled very well then he would have an awesome familiar with special powers but if he rolled poorly then he might end up with a 10 point toad of even a demon. DF is fun with some randomness.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by PK

No. Under no circumstances would I give someone free points just because he got a lucky roll. Bonus character points are meant to be earned via roleplaying, not because three dice happened to roll a certain way.

If anything, a critical success should let the player choose the familiar outright, rather than rolling on the table at all.


I think it'd be the most fun (without being unfair) to roll on the table once. Whatever you roll is what shows up. But rather than being bonded to the delver, it's an annoying little thing that follows him around and causes minor problems -- nothing that will get the delvers killed or hurt! After the adventure, the annoying critter goes away automatically, and you can try again as normal.

Well Consider this idea fact that 250 point character pays 3 points for an ally
the ally could be worth 126–188 points The roll could be where in that range falls?

[note I'm not in favored of the roll myself]

[b-dog]

In DF if a PC rolls to get a useful familiar and gets a toad or evil demon instead then tough #@$!. That is the way DF works. There is a randomness beyond even the control of the GM and that is what makes the game exciting. I am not worried if a PC gets a lucky roll and has an awesome familiar that increases his point total above the other PCs because there are plenty of times when a PC sees an Elder Thing and developes a delusion or phobia or when they touch an alter an lose IQ or DX or whatever. There are many times in DF where the PC gains or loses points, advantages or attibutes through the luck of the dice. GURPS DF just sets up a point total for PCs that seem reasonably fair while dice rolls and intelligent play determine the rest.

[Jerander]

Originally Posted by b-dog

After playing enough DF, I would make the Find Familiar spell work like this. I would have the wizard pay the points for the power level of the familiar he wishes to have but then he would roll against a table and most likely he would het what he wants but if he rolled very well then he would have an awesome familiar with special powers but if he rolled poorly then he might end up with a 10 point toad of even a demon. DF is fun with some randomness.

Cool. So what process are you using? What are the PCs rolling against? Would you be willing to share your table(s)?

[Jerander]

Well, if you're going to go random, you could go full random.

1) Start with PK's idea to determine what type of familiar turns up.
2) Then use my idea to determine the broad range of helpfulness.
3) Then use roguebfl's idea to determine where in that range the familiar actually falls.
4) If the familiar ends up with "kewl powrz", you could develop a table that would randomly generate them. Maybe based on the lenses for divine servators under Holy Allies...

I'd also consider pregenerating a Demonic Familiar lens to apply to the familiar in the case they end up with one. Or pregenerate a range of Enemy values to modify its expense as an Ally.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by b-dog

In DF if a PC rolls to get a useful familiar and gets a toad or evil demon instead then tough #@$!. That is the way DF works. There is a randomness beyond even the control of the GM and that is what makes the game exciting. I am not worried if a PC gets a lucky roll and has an awesome familiar that increases his point total above the other PCs because there are plenty of times when a PC sees an Elder Thing and developes a delusion or phobia or when they touch an alter an lose IQ or DX or whatever. There are many times in DF where the PC gains or loses points, advantages or attibutes through the luck of the dice. GURPS DF just sets up a point total for PCs that seem reasonably fair while dice rolls and intelligent play determine the rest.

Have you talked this over with your players? As a GM it sounds neat, but as a player if I spent 60 points for something nifty and ended up with a 10 point toad, I'd be royally ****** for wasting 50 points.

And frankly one of the reasons I am playing GURPS is the predictability in character generation and advancement. If I pay x points for something it's because I think it's worth it.

It took me a long time to learn (I'm thick headed sometimes) that its more important to focus on what is fun for the players rather than what's fun for me. The PCs are the heroes of the story, not me.

In fiction it can be fun to read the struggles of a young apprentice going for his familiar and ending up with something almost useless that happens to have an ability (unknown to everybody) that saves the day against the evil bad.

However, role-playing isn't fiction. The player with the bad familiar may quit before he discovers the secret power. He may have a fear or dislike of toads. There is a good chance that the trust between the player and GM will be broken. Players have their own thoughts and feelings.

There are ways to do this in GURPS, but randomly giving or taking away points just feels bad to me. I like the idea where the amount of points you can spend on the familiar is dependent on a roll, if you absolutely feel a roll is necessary.

This is just my opinion, of course. Please take it for want it's worth.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Have you talked this over with your players? As a GM it sounds neat, but as a player if I spent 60 points for something nifty and ended up with a 10 point toad, I'd be royally ****** for wasting 50 points.

If they're mad at him he'll probably just teleport them to a room full of vacuum and "cosmic lava", while invisible pixies shoot deadly death poison into their eyes, and they have to fight an "easy" monster with hundreds of HP, 300 tentacles, and Extra Attack 299. Then they'll know what fun is!