Allies - Am I doing something wrong?

[Langy]

I still say if you have Enemy with the Secret enhancement, it could be applied to your Ally, whether they have Unwilling or not. If you take the Enemy (Secret) disadvantage, you're asking for the GM to give you an enemy that you don't know or suspect. Just like an Ally can also be a Dependent, an Ally can also be an Enemy. I see no reason why they can't.

[Kalzazz]

I dont know, I think an ally and an enemy have to be mutually exclusive

That said, I could see 'Ally, 20pts'

And then enemy Secret, -45 then being composed of

'Enemy 20pts'
'Remove Ally 20pts'
'+5 for being secret'

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

I dont know, I think an ally and an enemy have to be mutually exclusive

That said, I could see 'Ally, 20pts'

And then enemy Secret, -45 then being composed of

'Enemy 20pts'
'Remove Ally 20pts'
'+5 for being secret'

I could see something like that working.

An ally is generally like buying an insurance that this particular NPC is not going to be a secret enemy of yours. The one man, woman, ...thing, that really is on your side.
...so I'd be think it through carefully before pulling something like that.

[Langy]

That said, I could see 'Ally, 20pts'

And then enemy Secret, -45 then being composed of

'Enemy 20pts'
'Remove Ally 20pts'
'+5 for being secret'

That's not really secret, though, unless you've got multiple 20 point allies hiding around. Also, at best I'd consider it a limitation on Ally, not completely removing it.

The way I'd probably price it is as a 2x multiplier on the cost of Enemy, so if you have a 10 point Ally built as 100% of point total with a 12- frequency of appearance, the Enemy disadvantage would be -10 (100% of point total) + -5 (Secret)=-15 points*2=-30 points, with a 9- frequency of appearance - he's going to be working against you relatively infrequently. This is the same price as a secret Enemy with 100% of point total with a 12- frequency of appearance, for example.

[Kalzazz]

It would be secret

The player would just see

Ally +20
Enemy, Secret -45 (or the exact numbers for these whatever they are)

So they think they have an Ally, but really they dont. They have an enemy pretending to be an ally

The DM sees

Ally +20
Enemy -20
Remove Ally -20
Secret -5

[Langy]

Yeah, but the only way to come up with a -45 point enemy would be Enemy (Entire National Government) -40 + Secret -5. That would be a bit odd to the player, I think. I'd prefer it if there was no way for the player to easily realize that he's got an Ally who's an enemy.

[The Benj]

Originally Posted by Langy

Yeah, but the only way to come up with a -45 point enemy would be Enemy (Entire National Government) -40 + Secret -5. That would be a bit odd to the player, I think. I'd prefer it if there was no way for the player to easily realize that he's got an Ally who's an enemy.

Or if that Enemy is very likely to turn up, they could be someone of equal power who shows up on a 15 or less.

[bcd]

Originally Posted by Langy

Yeah, but the only way to come up with a -45 point enemy would be Enemy (Entire National Government) -40 + Secret -5. That would be a bit odd to the player, I think. I'd prefer it if there was no way for the player to easily realize that he's got an Ally who's an enemy.

I'd say this seems sufficiently unusual that no players are actually going to suspect it in the first place. I would suspect an Evil Twin/Hunter/Almost all the time sort of nuisance long before suspecting my Ally of working against me.

[bcd]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Well, it is possible for the ally to get mind controlled or blackmailed by having his kids kidnapped or such, thats a staple of fiction

Or possibly even be convinced you are doing Wrong and as a friend try to stop you (especially if its a grey area game)

Yes, he can do all these things. He is going to be up-front with you about it however (well, except for the mind control case). He's not going to sell you out to the blackmailers, he's going to tell what's going on and ask you to help him out (or perhaps go off to solve the situation on his own but where's the fun in that!). And he's not going to turn you in to the authorities just because he thinks you're a criminal, he's going to talk to you about it and try to change your behaviour (and can certainly refuse to help you do further such deeds!).

Of course, if, over a long period of time, your Ally feels that you are ignoring him, acting against his interests, not being sensitive to his needs, etc., then possibly he will break off contact with you and you will lose him as an Ally. In the usual case the points spent will be given back and can be spent on a different Ally or otherwise as described on p. B37.

[lachimba]

Well I will give an example of where I think there could be conflict between an ally and the Character.

The PC is accused of a serious crime. The Ally is in law enforcement has honesty, truthfulness, duty etc.

The ally could break those advantages to help their friend escape.

Or just as easily they could arrest their friend convince them that they will be found innocent and then run off searching for evidence and to hire a good lawyer.

Either way could happen in popular fiction and both are a function of roleplaying and other disadvantages.