Allies that are rivals

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

None of those characters are well represented as anyone's Ally. The basic problem with this idea is that it leads to GM characters interacting with each other rather than the player characters and that never turns out well.

Yep. What works in literature and drama doesn't work in RPG if you don't make it participative.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

Yep. What works in literature and drama doesn't work in RPG if you don't make it participative.

It doesn't even really work in literature and drama. Allies represent sidekicks and I've never seen a pair of sidekicks with that degree of animosity. The worse they get is verbal complaints about how annoying Artoo or Monk is being. Characters who can't work together reasonably well automatically step out of the sidekick category because at that point they have their own agendas independent of the leader.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It doesn't even really work in literature and drama. Allies represent sidekicks and I've never seen a pair of sidekicks with that degree of animosity. The worse they get is verbal complaints about how annoying Artoo or Monk is being. Characters who can't work together reasonably well automatically step out of the sidekick category because at that point they have their own agendas independent of the leader.

At least the thread's title I'd about allies/rivals, which is the lowest degree of enemy.

On the other hand I'd probably not allow this because of reasons I've already gone through.

[Johnny Angel]

I think it's a cool idea. I don't think it's necessarily something which cuts other players out of the fun either. Remember, allies aren't mindless; other PCs could get in one the action by supporting one or the other when they show up. I think this could lead to some rather interesting social conflict in a campaign.

Depending on how bitter the rivalry between the allies is, one might at some point demand that the PC make a decision to no longer associate with the other.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel

I think it's a cool idea. I don't think it's necessarily something which cuts other players out of the fun either. Remember, allies aren't mindless; other PCs could get in one the action by supporting one or the other when they show up. I think this could lead to some rather interesting social conflict in a campaign.

Depending on how bitter the rivalry between the allies is, one might at some point demand that the PC make a decision to no longer associate with the other.

It is a cool idea, but it's not something I'd ever want to see in the games I GM. The focus should be on the PCs, not the interplay between NPCs. Especially as it adds work for me.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Anders

That's a point. Could work in a game with two GMs, though.

That results in the GMs yakking with each other while the players sit around doodling on their character sheets. It's like suffering through endless cutscenes in a videogame, except it's not even about your character.

NPC-on-NPC violence (intrigue, what-have-you) is by definition boring because it reduces the players from an active role to mere spectators. Now, there are obvious exceptions to this rule, but it's a pretty good rule.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel

I think it's a cool idea. I don't think it's necessarily something which cuts other players out of the fun either. Remember, allies aren't mindless; other PCs could get in one the action by supporting one or the other when they show up. I think this could lead to some rather interesting social conflict in a campaign.

Starting fights between two players is another one of those 'never a good idea' ideas. There's room for it in a game that's specifically set up to be "PVP", but at that point they already are fighting each other so the NPCs squabbles are an annoying distraction.

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel

Depending on how bitter the rivalry between the allies is, one might at some point demand that the PC make a decision to no longer associate with the other.

Causing the character points spent on them to fall off. Bleh.

[quarkstomper]

Where I would use something like this is in a single-player campaign to set up a Spock-McCoy dynamic. In STAR TREK a big part of those two characters was to present opposing viewpoints for Kirk to weigh and decide between. In a similar way, a GM could provide options for the character through NPCs with different values and points of view.

It would be a difficult balance to maintain, though, and I wouldn't try it if I had more than one PC to deal with. Even with a single PC, it's easier to run just one NPC buddy as an advisor/sounding board/devil's advocate.

[D10]

In a campaign im playing on my character and the groups mage are constantly vying for the spot of smartest guy in group, the quest for higher IQ is never ending.

[Johnny Angel]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Causing the character points spent on them to fall off. Bleh.

I think it could be worked out with the DM to substitute in a different advantage in the event that happens. I assume the same thing would be done if a player's ally were to die or be otherwise maimed in some way so as to no longer be useful. I see no reason to treat the situation different when the "injury" is social rather than physical.

Whatever the GM prefers as a way to handle what happens when a PC's ally no longer ceases to be a viable ally should still apply in this situation. That being said, in this particular case, I think the GM should talk to the player and make them aware of how things might play out, and what some of the challenges associated with it might be.

From a player's perspective, the situation isn't unwinnable; perhaps one of the motivations of the player's character might be to solve the differences his two allies have. I like the idea because I'm in favor of things which enhance the connection of the PCs to the world they live in, and I believe some of the opportunities created by this particular social dynamic would be something which helps to immerse the character into the world.