[Powers] Eyes, Eyes Everywhere!

[Sunrunners_Fire]

I have this species, for which I'm presently writing the physiological template of and with which I'm running into a bit of uncertainty. Specifically their vision-related sensory abilities. It is important to note that I'm not asking if this is rules-as-written; it rather isn't. I'm asking if the game mechanics and values (and not the in-setting biology) make sense and/or if there is a better way of doing it.

Whatcha think?

Fluff:

A'amir have eyespots scattered over their skin in a uniquely individual pattern. These eyespots are not distinguishable from their skin absent a medical examination, are unable to distinguish between colors regardless of spectrum, are near-sighted within the human-visible spectrum of light and suffer an overall diminished acuity when compared to their eyes. They can perceive infrared light and are not near-sighted within that spectrum. They can also perceive ultraviolet light, along with an exceptional ability to resolve distant objects within that spectrum; albeit as a broad field of vision.

A'amir eyes are capable of perceiving both the human-visible and the ultraviolet spectrum of light with equal acuity.

Mechanics:

360 Vision (Panoptic 1, +20%; Temporary Disadvantage (Bad Sight: Nearsighted), (-25%; Mitigator: Visible Spectrum Only, -60%) -10%; Temporary Disadvantage (Colorblindness), -10%) [25]
Infravision (360 Vision Only, -10%) [9]
Protected Sense (Vision) [5]
Telescopic Vision 2 (360 Vision & Ultravision Only, -10%; No Targeting, -60%) [3]
Ultravision [10]
Reduced Perception 2 (360 Vision Only, -80%) [-2]

... subtotal: [50]

[ericthered]

So let me get the effects you described above strait:

the aliens have two sets of visual sensory organs: classic humanoid eyes and eyespots on the skin.

The eye spots have normal infrared vision with fuzzy, short range vision in the visible range and a long range UV vision. None of this accepts color.

The classic eyes can see Visible and UV light equally well.

Is that right?

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by ericthered

So let me get the effects you described above strait:

the aliens have two sets of visual sensory organs: classic humanoid eyes and eyespots on the skin.

The eye spots have normal infrared vision with fuzzy, short range vision in the visible range and a long range UV vision. None of this accepts color.

The classic eyes can see Visible and UV light equally well.

Is that right?

That'd be correct, yes.

[ericthered]

Ok....

take off reduced perception: there are more elegant ways to do this. The only case were I see it being needed is if the IR vision is always bad. I don't think it is though.

the 360 degree advantage looks good, except that calling bad vision "mitigated" is the wrong terminology.

I'm not sure that infra-vision should get a limitation for not being usable out of the forward eyes. it sees just as well as if they were.

I'm not seeing where protected sense comes from, though its a cool bonus.

The telescopic vision should only apply to UV, and should probably have a minimum range.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by ericthered

take off reduced perception: there are more elegant ways to do this. The only case were I see it being needed is if the IR vision is always bad. I don't think it is though.

It is. Their eyespots are generally worse than their eyes at seeing regardless of spectrum.

Originally Posted by ericthered

I'm not sure that infra-vision should get a limitation for not being usable out of the forward eyes. it sees just as well as if they were.

Its' for an ultra-tech setting. Clothing and armor are expected to be worn. Its' still a limiting factor thats' going to necessitate exposing bits to be used or requiring the purchase of custom gear (as the eyespot's locations are individually variable) in order to use the ability effectively.

Originally Posted by ericthered

I'm not seeing where protected sense comes from, though its a cool bonus.

A vague desire to have trait packages end with a zero if possible.

Originally Posted by ericthered

The telescopic vision should only apply to UV,

It does only function with Ultravision, and even then only when Ultravision is used in conjunction with 360 Vision.

Originally Posted by ericthered

and should probably have a minimum range.

Maybe. How would you suggest applying such a thing?

[Flyndaran]

According to the authors, number of eyes has no point cost, good or bad. So by that logic, (dis)advantages that only some have doesn't have a point cost either.
Though I wonder if not being able to wear armor without blinding oneself to UV and IR might have a write up.

[starslayer]

Part of the reason why number of eyes does not effect cost is because it gives that many more portals to the brain.

The species is also going to need IT: No brain (only body eyes).

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by starslayer

Part of the reason why number of eyes does not effect cost is because it gives that many more portals to the brain.

The species is also going to need IT: No brain (only body eyes).

I disagree quite vehemently with that. Eyes are eyes alone. They don't come with brains attached that need to be bought off.

[ericthered]

Its' for an ultra-tech setting. Clothing and armor are expected to be worn. Its' still a limiting factor thats' going to necessitate exposing bits to be used or requiring the purchase of custom gear (as the eyespot's locations are individually variable) in order to use the ability effectively.

Hmm... You may want to phrase that differently then. as written the clothing limitation isn't there. For several of your (-x% 360 degree only) you'll want to write instead (-x% not while wearing clothing). 360 degree vision isn't the limitation, not wearing clothing is. And its value will depend greatly on the mores and tech of the setting.

It does only function with Ultravision, and even then only when Ultravision is used in conjunction with 360 Vision.

ok, the origonal stat block had it working with visible light as well.

Maybe. How would you suggest applying such a thing?

as an accessibility limitation: only at distances of 10 yards or more -X%. (I'd suggest X=-20%, but you could argue me into -40% or -10%, depending on if the setting is outdoors or indoors)

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

According to the authors, number of eyes has no point cost, good or bad. So by that logic, (dis)advantages that only some have doesn't have a point cost either.
Though I wonder if not being able to wear armor without blinding oneself to UV and IR might have a write up.

Shouldn't necessarily give a limitation value.

Originally Posted by starslayer

Part of the reason why number of eyes does not effect cost is because it gives that many more portals to the brain.

The species is also going to need IT: No brain (only body eyes).

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I disagree quite vehemently with that. Eyes are eyes alone. They don't come with brains attached that need to be bought off.

360 Vision doesn't add additional hit locations to my knowledge. The eyespots are merely setting-fluff. Fluff shouldn't require additional advantages to buy off implied disadvantages.

Originally Posted by ericthered

Hmm... You may want to phrase that differently then. as written the clothing limitation isn't there. For several of your (-x% 360 degree only) you'll want to write instead (-x% not while wearing clothing). 360 degree vision isn't the limitation, not wearing clothing is. And its value will depend greatly on the mores and tech of the setting.

Humans don't get a limitation on Infravision nor Ultravision because its' possible for us to wear blindfolds. :) But humans with impaired vision do get to take the relevant disadvantages. In any case ... "360 Vision Only, -10%" is essentially "Acccessibility (Only when also using _ability)", which GCA prices at -10%, and is necessary so they can't use those advantages with their eyes. I don't want them using Infravision or Telescopic Vision with their eyes' visual capabilities.

I could do it as:

• 360 Vision (Panoptic 1, +20%; Temporary Disadvantage (Bad Sight (Nearsighted)), -25%; Temporary Disadvantage (Colorblindness), -10%) [22]
• Infravision (360 Vision Only, -0%; Temporary Disadvantage (Colorblindness), -10%) [9]
• Protected Sense (Vision) [5]
• Telescopic Vision 2 (360 Vision Only, -0%; Ultravision Only, -0%; No Targeting, -60%) [4]
• Ultravision (Temporary Disadvantage (Colorblindness), (-10%; 360 Vision Only, *0) -0%) [10]

... and drop the Reduced Perception (360 Vision Only) in order to keep "A'amir Vision" at an even [50].

The above assumes that "360 Vision Only" and "Ultravision Only" are zero-cost features because the limitations on 360 Vision and Ultravision aren't inherited by the advantages that only work when using it. If they are inherited, then "360 Vision Only" should be worth something.

Originally Posted by ericthered

as an accessibility limitation: only at distances of 10 yards or more -X%. (I'd suggest X=-20%, but you could argue me into -40% or -10%, depending on if the setting is outdoors or indoors)

Hmm.