Powers as spells; Bless Plant

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Refplace

As for the ways around spending your own points for the Create Essential Earth spell they are all good. However it means it is very unlikely for someone to want to use that spell so it doesn't work well for improving agriculture.

I dunno. It's pretty traditional to sacrifice a fattened calf or the fruits of the harvest for success at this years growth. At least this way it would have a fairly reliable result!

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I dunno. It's pretty traditional to sacrifice a fattened calf or the fruits of the harvest for success at this years growth. At least this way it would have a fairly reliable result!

True, though works better for a priest build then a mage one. Though I can see a mage cating one and wanting permission so makes the sacrifice.
The Quintensene/Vis or whatever option sounds goo too though unless a farmer comes up with it or a town seems like it would be still a rare spell.

The stability point mechanic is there to keep a PC from using it to get rich.
It is waived in the Feed the Masses prayer in Divine Powers.
At waht point is it fair to waive it in a game? Especially if your using create to make money? I think its ok if the money represents a small part of your income, say a day?
At that point the spell is more background material then a game breaker.
Sounds good, too harsh, too lenient?

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Refplace

True, though works better for a priest build then a mage one. Though I can see a mage cating one and wanting permission so makes the sacrifice.
The Quintensene/Vis or whatever option sounds goo too though unless a farmer comes up with it or a town seems like it would be still a rare spell.

The stability point mechanic is there to keep a PC from using it to get rich.
It is waived in the Feed the Masses prayer in Divine Powers.
At waht point is it fair to waive it in a game? Especially if your using create to make money? I think its ok if the money represents a small part of your income, say a day?
At that point the spell is more background material then a game breaker.
Sounds good, too harsh, too lenient?

It's noted that restrictions against using the spell for "convenience or personal gain" replace the normal rules restricting creation powers. So a Cleric with an appropriate Vow or Duty could learn Create Essential Earth and cast it freely, so long as he wasn't using it out of greed (ie, being paid only a subsistence wage, with any additional money going to his temple). In other words, the spell would be highly dependent on the intentions of the caster.

On the other hand, if you consider the nutrients provided by Essential Earth to be just as usable as normal nutrients, perhaps it doesn't have to be permanent. You'd cast it during the planting process, with enough duration to last for a season or so, during which time the plants would grow faster/healthier etc. At the end of its duration the earth goes back to normal, but the nutrients consumed were provided largely by the spell, so what remains is less depleted than it would otherwise be. Presumably this means that the process of the plants consuming nutrients and integrating them into their physical forms acted to "stabilize" the creation. While not strictly RAW, it makes sense, and would allow Essential Earth for fun and profit (but not a lot of profit, of course.)

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

On the other hand, if you consider the nutrients provided by Essential Earth to be just as usable as normal nutrients, perhaps it doesn't have to be permanent. You'd cast it during the planting process, with enough duration to last for a season or so, during which time the plants would grow faster/healthier etc. At the end of its duration the earth goes back to normal, but the nutrients consumed were provided largely by the spell, so what remains is less depleted than it would otherwise be. Presumably this means that the process of the plants consuming nutrients and integrating them into their physical forms acted to "stabilize" the creation. While not strictly RAW, it makes sense, and would allow Essential Earth for fun and profit (but not a lot of profit, of course.)

Here is the problem with that idea.
Extended duration is explicitly forbidden as an enhancement.
You could just use the points to stabilize it and pull them after a season or two, I doubt were talking many points here too. How much is good fertilizer worth?
Hmm well maybe we are ;)
But it also calls out that if its destroyed by being eaten you cant get your points back.

The Vow RPK used in Divine Powers is specifically called out in Powers. So that was clearly in the rules and allowing someone to do this without pay would be fine based on the book also.
However it gets called up for question when the mage is getting paid.
For now I will allow the build (but still hoping for a better idea) but base how much you can create according to the mages wealth level and if it is more then a special effect he gets dinged.
For example I see nothing wrong with buying wealth and saying your job is going around casting these and other spells and that is how you maintain it.
That means your using one power to justify another advantage rather then getting something for free.

[Refplace]

A tad outside the space time continuum...
What about regrowth?
They do call it living soil <g> and in an Animists belief it could be considered alive.
Its a pricey power that should have some use after all.
Maybe need an affliction AF.
Or hmm Affliction bonus to HT to represent the nutrients and such being put back in.

I think the latter is a reasonable one but the regrowth could be a nice way to handle the Repair spell so bears thinking about using it on inanimate objects.

[Lamech]

Here's what I would do for creation pools:
One you can take a "job" storing "$" in your pool. Every 200 hours generates wealth level appropriate $ for your pool. Two you can get independent income that filters into the pool. Finally, every 800* hours spent filling your pool generates 1cp to be spent on either your wealth level, independent income or your create power.
Now your players can fill their pool without spending precious CP, your economy isn't broken, and the players aren't rich, but people can make essential earth.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Lamech

Here's what I would do for creation pools:
One you can take a "job" storing "$" in your pool. Every 200 hours generates wealth level appropriate $ for your pool. Two you can get independent income that filters into the pool. Finally, every 800* hours spent filling your pool generates 1cp to be spent on either your wealth level, independent income or your create power.
Now your players can fill their pool without spending precious CP, your economy isn't broken, and the players aren't rich, but people can make essential earth.

Well a system is what I would like but not sure I got yours.
If I make $1 an hour then 200 hours later I have $200 to put into the pool assuming I didn't spend it anywhere else.
At $800 I would get (or rather trade in) 1 CP I could put towards my stability pool or a wealth advantage.

Example TL 3 base $700 *2 for comfortable and divide that by 160 (I know 40 hour work weeks are unrealistic at TL3) for hourly rate of 8.75
So $7000 represents 1 CP and as long as I charge that much for a job where I use create and spend 1 CP on stability I break even.
Do I have that right?

[Extrarius]

Originally Posted by Refplace

[...]Create Essential Earth
Create Essential Earth base 10, Level 14 (just shy of 1 ton) ; Cosmic (Essential) +50%; Transmute only -50%; Standard -20%; Preparation Required 1 hour. -50%; (-70%) [42]

As you can see Snatcher is pretty darn expensive and the extra weight is not really the big part of the cost
Create power is affordable but you have to worry about spending points to make it permanent.[...]

I've had the idea in the past of using the cost of Luck as a guideline for a 'point generator' advantage since luck is almost like spending CP to modify results. Thus, I'd allow "Creation Stabilization Points 1/hr [15]" or something like that.

[Gef]

Originally Posted by Refplace

As for the ways around spending your own points for the Create Essential Earth spell they are all good. However it means it is very unlikely for someone to want to use that spell so it doesn't work well for improving agriculture.

I'm not so sure. You're a hedge wizard, serving the needs of a farming community. You bless the crops, and it takes much of your time, chanting away all through growing season, but it's a guaranteed source of income. Love potion gigs are a lot more interesting, but not so steady.

GEF

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Extrarius

I've had the idea in the past of using the cost of Luck as a guideline for a 'point generator' advantage since luck is almost like spending CP to modify results. Thus, I'd allow "Creation Stabilization Points 1/hr [15]" or something like that.

The 200 hours per point is pretty much a standard though. 15 hours for a point is I think way too much

Originally Posted by Gef

I'm not so sure. You're a hedge wizard, serving the needs of a farming community. You bless the crops, and it takes much of your time, chanting away all through growing season, but it's a guaranteed source of income. Love potion gigs are a lot more interesting, but not so steady.

GEF

Sure but if your actually burning points then your losing something. I can see a hedge wizard doing exactly what you say and a number of other things around the village. That is why I want this to be workable for one and not just a might adventurer.
Though in truth my hedge guys use path/book magic in my current world.
Powers as magic is for the more flashy and deadly stuff.