Standard magic - effect on gameworld, playability etc.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Brett

But does that leave a PC with Magery and a portfolio of cannily-chosen spells in a position to cut a swathe through any opposition?

Sure. Conan the Barbarian can do the same thing with his sword, his muscles, and his indomitable will. This sort of fantasy is about larger than life characters. Not just Conan, either; Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Aragorn and Legolas and Gimli, Ged, Sabriel and Touchstone, Barganax and Lessingham, even Number Ten Ox are all impressively capable.

Bill Stoddard

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Element to element, and create element are also setting altering. But really all magic is setting altering if used intelligently. It's magic! Rarity, GM fiat, or maybe Gods/spirits keep mages on their toes and from getting to mercantile.

On the other hand, the way that GURPS Magic magic lends itself to routine use by journeymen leads to more effects on daily life than some systems do.

A classic solution is threshold-limited magic: instead of making the caster tired, casting many and powerful spells increases the chance that something will go horribly wrong (old version of the rules, see GURPS Thaumatology for a new one).

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

On the other hand, the way that GURPS Magic magic lends itself to routine use by journeymen leads to more effects on daily life than some systems do.

A classic solution is threshold-limited magic

Agreed. Standard GURPS Magic tends to make the average wizard a living toolkit: i.e. the wizard is capable of generating a wide range of minor but useful effects, quite often, and with little risk.

This tends to open the door to magic being used as a replacement for everyday tasks, in turn leading to large but hard to predict run-on effects on the game world.

Threshold magic is a good quick solution for this, since it makes it harder for wizards to use magic casually for mundane things. I also like to put a minimum cost on spells (say, 4-5 points) for the same reason, while also allowing high Thresholds so wizards can generate really impressive once in a while, but maybe that's just me.

[fifiste]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Standard magic has a lot of problems, ranging from industrial spells (e.g. the Earth spells above), to plot-breaking stuff (many information spells are grossly overpowered), to literally world-breaking (there are ways of destroying planets for less than 100 energy), to mind-controlled legions, to making a mockery of point totals (exchange bodies, spells with energy costs based on point total, such as Golem or Lich), to causality problems (hello time travel). It's basically only fixable by declaring that this campaign doesn't care about plausibility (which many games don't -- but GURPS Magic doesn't even do cinematic very well), changing several rules, or severely hacking the available spell list.

Bolding mine. Well these seem troublesome. The economy stuff- well it is kinda not too naive to hope that players are more interested in killburn mode of stuff, so I hope I do not see too much economical munchkinism. The thing to keep up is probably information spells and maybe things like telport etc. those can kind of really derail any plot. So probably knowledge/information colledge unter scrutiny?
The suggestion to replace standard with threshold seems good also - if you try to do 100+ FP spells then prepare to be sucked into demon filled abyss etc. quickly.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by fifiste

Bolding mine. Well these seem troublesome. The economy stuff- well it is kinda not too naive to hope that players are more interested in killburn mode of stuff, so I hope I do not see too much economical munchkinism. The thing to keep up is probably information spells and maybe things like telport etc. those can kind of really derail any plot. So probably knowledge/information colledge unter scrutiny?

The major stuff to keep an eye on is probably the colleges of Communication, Earth, Gate, Knowledge, Mind Control, Tech, and anything that uses the range/speed chart for its effects. Note that the Tech college, depending on the setting, can be anywhere from gamebreaking to utterly useless.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by fifiste

Bolding mine. Well these seem troublesome. The economy stuff- well it is kinda not too naive to hope that players are more interested in killburn mode of stuff, so I hope I do not see too much economical munchkinism. The thing to keep up is probably information spells and maybe things like telport etc. those can kind of really derail any plot. So probably knowledge/information colledge unter scrutiny?
The suggestion to replace standard with threshold seems good also - if you try to do 100+ FP spells then prepare to be sucked into demon filled abyss etc. quickly.

As a player I like adventuring games. But my character wants to achieve goals, and I would be remiss if I made him choose inefficient stupid means of doing that.
In an AD&D game, I played a part water elemental whose greatest ambition was to attain enough gold to create a lake home for water breathing outcasts. The Monty Hall GM couldn't understand why my character had to leave after being given an enormous jewel.

Even in magic settings, enough money can solve most problems.

[ClayDowling]

You're looking at this wrong. What you're talking about is a social problem, and the rules won't fix that.

Explain to munchkins that it's just not happening. Don't play with people who aren't into the spirit of the game, or who want to wreck things. No rule set can fix that problem.

Second, every player can be sometimes tempted to exploit a loophole. If a simple "no" won't do, a convenient deus ex machine is to have Hermes, god of magicians and messenger of the gods, pull them aside and explain the dire consequences for continuing down this path. Allusions to pillars, eagles and livers may help make the point more clear. If your players lack a classical education, a short telling of the Prometheus myth may be useful.

[Flyndaran]

Giving players an implied freedom to use their abilities as they see fit only to slam down unexpected arbitrary road blocks is a bit douchey, unless it is obviously counter-genre. And I don't think gainful employment and making money is ever counter genre for any setting with humans.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Giving players an implied freedom to use their abilities as they see fit only to slam down unexpected arbitrary road blocks is a bit douchey, unless it is obviously counter-genre. And I don't think gainful employment and making money is ever counter genre for any setting with humans.

If the genre is about making money by doing a specific thing, doing something else for your money is counter-genre and fully warrants telling the player to knock it off.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

If the genre is about making money by doing a specific thing, doing something else for your money is counter-genre and fully warrants telling the player to knock it off.

I would have trouble playing an idiot like that. I don't ask for much. Just some outward reason for my character to not do something.