Question about spears

[Varyon]

Something I'll note about the quarterstaff is that GURPS seems to assume rather fluid grip changes as standard, hence why it is Reach 1,2 rather than the Reach 1,2* of the standard spear (that is, you can freely switch up the Reach rather than needing a Ready in between). Essentially, in Martial Arts terms, the Staff skill comes with free Reach Mastery and, perhaps, Grip Mastery (the latter so you can strike at full power with a standard grip, then immediately switch to Defensive Grip for enhanced Parrying), much as Main-Gauche comes with free Off-hand Weapon Training. Arguably, a revised skill list should get rid of oddities like this and simply suggest that certain Perks/Advantages/Techniques are appropriate for certain weapons/skills - "The quarterstaff is often used in fluid motions that allow a skilled practitioner to change Reach freely, as well as shift into a Defensive Grip as needed. To represent this, characters who favor this weapon typically take Reach Mastery (Staff) and Grip Mastery (Staff); Enhanced Parry (Staff) is also very common, and combined with Parrying With Two-Handed Weapons (p.000) can allow a single staff-wielder to ward off multiple attacks."

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Arguably, a revised skill list should get rid of oddities like this and simply suggest that certain Perks/Advantages/Techniques are appropriate for certain weapons/skills - "The quarterstaff is often used in fluid motions that allow a skilled practitioner to change Reach freely, as well as shift into a Defensive Grip as needed. To represent this, characters who favor this weapon typically take Reach Mastery (Staff) and Grip Mastery (Staff); Enhanced Parry (Staff) is also very common, and combined with Parrying With Two-Handed Weapons (p.000) can allow a single staff-wielder to ward off multiple attacks."

That rapidly becomes quite expensive (and Enhanced Parry is cinematic). Also, it would require changing the rules around purchasing combat perks unless only really serious combatants got to use a staff like anyone can currently.

Also it's very fiddly if someone just wants to make a guy who's good with a stick.

[awesomenessofme1]

For the record, after the first page or two, based on the linked threads, I decided my final decision would be "Yes, Form Mastery does give you all the benefits of both Staff and Spear." You're going to be slightly penalized on either maximally effective attacking or defending since you'll be relying on defaults for one of them, so I don't think it's that broken.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Rupert

That rapidly becomes quite expensive (and Enhanced Parry is cinematic). Also, it would require changing the rules around purchasing combat perks unless only really serious combatants got to use a staff like anyone can currently.

My response was largely aimed at those who were arguing that the current treatment of the quarterstaff makes it too good - requiring a couple Perks and an Advantage to have it function like it does now would tame it down. Modifying the MA rules for purchasing Combat Perks would probably be worthwhile if revising the combat skills, yeah (to be clear, the above suggestions would be in addition to merging Spear and Staff into a single skill); as for Enhanced Parry, verbiage like "for a character with Reach Mastery (Staff) and Grip Mastery (Staff), a single level of Enhanced Parry (Staff) is realistic" would work there (although I think MA suggests that a single level of Enhanced Defenses may be realistic).

Originally Posted by Rupert

Also it's very fiddly if someone just wants to make a guy who's good with a stick.

I mean, you need Shield-Wall Training to just make a guy who's good with a sword and shield (if said guy is using a Large Shield for a -2 penalty to attack, or if you're using the optional rules from LTC2 that expands that to be -DB, such that even small shields have a penalty). And, of course, even with the above suggestion, a guy who is good with a stick doesn't need the above stuff, just high skill - the Perks and Advantage are to get a guy who is more dedicated to using that stick and has benefits that an average stick-user lacks.

Obviously, if the current rules work just fine for you, no revision is necessary.

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

For the record, after the first page or two, based on the linked threads, I decided my final decision would be "Yes, Form Mastery does give you all the benefits of both Staff and Spear." You're going to be slightly penalized on either maximally effective attacking or defending since you'll be relying on defaults for one of them, so I don't think it's that broken.

That seems the quickest, clearest, and least-problematic way to interpret it, yeah.