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Old 02-07-2019, 04:13 PM   #171
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Default Re: Ammunition Industry

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They know what's needed, but it's a lot of heavy equipment. They need a significant steel industry first, which I have not researched yet.
I don't know about the details of smelting and such, but I'm betting that settling important confluences of waterways, improving navigable rivers and building canals or roads to link them is going to be a big part.

I'm looking at the Rhine, the Weser and the Elbe, as well as smaller rivers. If there are new gates at the Goslar analogue and the Tannhäuser Gate is located about mid-way between Eisenbach and Gotha are in our world, those will become urban centers for them, but I'm not sure how to best set up logistics around them. Obviously Höxter, Magdeburg and Celle seem important, as do the sites around the upper Elbe.

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You need mining foremen with skill and willingness, maybe 1 for each 50 miners. If they're locals, they'll need some extra training. You need a real mining engineer for each shift, and a boss mining engineer.
That sounds like they could establish quite a lot of mines, as there are plenty of OT and SS men with experience of bossing slaves at mines and digs.

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Then you need the people to extract the lead from the ore, don't know about that yet.
Yes, extracting anything useful from ore will tend to be more technically challenging (if perhaps less demanding in terms of muscle) than digging it out of the mines.

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Mass-producing hardened steel penetrators takes mechanisation. I think powdered iron bullets for MP40s are a good idea for anti-Fey.
Would it be costly to sinter the bullets?

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One thing they can readily do is bring a lot of Mauser 1889 actions and barrels, not assembled, and use local wood to put stocks on them. That saves the limited carriage capacity.
That's a good thought. If they have the chance, they'll bring those parts of firearms they know will be hard to make at first, but finish anything not requiring industry in the new world.

Is there any special reason why the Belgian Mauser 1889 is desirable, rather than either the older Mauser 1871/84 as a black powder rifle and the newer Karabiner 98k and any number of Mauser sporting models for smokeless powder?
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Old 02-08-2019, 01:13 AM   #172
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Default Synthetic Rubber

When neither a magical gate nor a navigable waterway link a location where some natural resource is abundant with an ASN settlement, either a canal or a road must be established. Canals are no doubt greatly to be preferred, but it will take the ASNs centuries to match the system of dense waterways that exists in modern Germany. Until that happy day, transport over land will be a regrettable neccesity.

What is required to build good autobahs and railway tracks is a matter for future analysis, as is the fuel required to transport things over them. For the moment, let's assume that animal- or human-powered carts, wagons, wheelbarrows and bicycles will be used on and off good roads, because the need to transport things will not wait for the ASNs to construct perfect infrastructure.

Bicycles strike me as something numerous ASNs might have taken with them when they went through the gates, as they were fairly common in German society, light enough to carry through and obviously useful in a world without railways or other transport infrastructure. Even without roads, bikes allow you to move heavier weights than you could carry.

But bicycles, especially bicycles used for cargo transport on poor or no roads, require a constant supply of rubber tires. Without rubber tires, bicycles are probably inferior to low-tech carts with wooden wheels.

As it happens, Heinrich Bütefisch is an Antarctic Space Nazi. Bütefisch spent much of WWII running slave plants making synthetic rubber, more precisely Buna, Buna-S and Buna-N rubber. Many of the SS men who oversaw the Buna Werke and the camps that supplied the labour are also Antarctic Space Nazis.

Where can the ASNs get the chemicals needed to make this kind of synthetic rubber?

I note that in Germany, the camps were supplied with raw materials from Polish coal fields. The ASNs have access to plenty of coal fields. What more do they need for synthetic rubber manufacture?

How soon, if at all, could Bütefisch start making rubber to replace depleted bicycle tires?
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Old 02-08-2019, 01:19 AM   #173
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Default Re: Ammunition Industry

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Is there any special reason why the Belgian Mauser 1889 is desirable, rather than either the older Mauser 1871/84 as a black powder rifle and the newer Karabiner 98k and any number of Mauser sporting models for smokeless powder?
No, I meant Mauser '98, but had a typo.

Two more questions:

You've been a bit vague about exactly what the Lords of the Last Waste are getting from the ASN. I presume this is in part because most of the population don't know, but the engineering planners will need to provide for it. Can you elucidate?

How is the educational system going to work? Back in Germany, a Nazi educational system was never fully formed. Nazism tended to encourage pupils and students to rebel against the traditions of the German system, which undermined the authority of teachers. So a new system is going to be needed.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:27 AM   #174
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Default Education and the Lords of the Last Waste

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You've been a bit vague about exactly what the Lords of the Last Waste are getting from the ASN. I presume this is in part because most of the population don't know, but the engineering planners will need to provide for it. Can you elucidate?
They are getting life force, energy, warmth, potentiality and hope. The Kadavergehorsamer are linked to the Cold Ones and when they are able to kill at close quarters, some of the life energy is transmitted to the Outer Dark. The Cold Ones can also draw power from sacrifice, whether as formal magical ritual, or merely by having thousands of slaves worked to death on ground they can extends tendrils of influence through. Other forms of mass death and the loss of hope also feed them.

For example, the orgy of killing on all sides and the fading hopes of the German people at the end of WWII were powerful sources of energy for them, which allowed the ASN to power rituals far beyond what they could otherwise have done. The death of Adolf Hitler by his own hand, as he abandoned all hope for his grandiose plans and died wishing his empire would become his shroud, was the last step, a symbolic killing of the king, in a dark mirror of Frazerian sacred kingship rituals.

The energy created by the death of the Third Reich and the sacrifice of its self-appointed sacral king was divided between the Cold Ones and the occultists who'd made the Faustian bargain. Even without this bargain, the ASNs had gained access to the World Tree and learned some limited ways to navigate it, as well as creating a demiplane to be the center of their power. But without a truly vast source of power, it was all fairly limited. Enough to move people and supplies through, but only as ragged refugees, not proud conquerors.

With final ratification of their compact with the Lords of the Last Waste, the shadowy half-real mirrorrs of Wahr Wewelsburg, the Externsteine, the Irminsul and the Westphalian farmland in between became real enough to feed a nation and pulsed with enough occult energies to create many more magical pathways between itself and the other ASN settlements, as well as opening ways to yet more worlds. A flickering demiplane of quasi-reality became the heart of ASN power, their Last Redoubt and the internal lines of supply that all logisticians dream about.

But the Lords of the Last Waste hunger eternally. They will make more of their spawn, transforming the living and the dead into biological automatons, their vital processes replaced with unearthly connections to the absolute cold and inchoate hunger of the Outer Dark. Their spawn no longer require food, but they will drain life, heat and energy for their masters, somehow transmitting it through to feed them.

The more energy that the Cold Ones can absorb in the form of heat or electricity, the less they require in the form of necromantic sacrifice. That means that in order not to have their own populace drained, the ASNs will need to constantly increase their energy production, sending any surplus to their masters. Bootstrapping their industry to produce massive amounts of power and raiding all the worlds they have access to for raw materials and fresh supplies of slaves are more than strategic imperatives. They are a matter of placating forces that will end all existence on a world if they physically enter it and can only be held back with constant sacrifice.

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How is the educational system going to work? Back in Germany, a Nazi educational system was never fully formed. Nazism tended to encourage pupils and students to rebel against the traditions of the German system, which undermined the authority of teachers. So a new system is going to be needed.
Yes, there are thousands of educated SS-Helferinnen who'll establish primary schools in Wahr Wewelsburg and around it, with children between ages six and twelve expected to attend there. Himmler dreamt about requiring all children to be raised there, but was forced to compromise. All the same, all SS men and many other citizens with ambitions for their children will send them to the demiplane to be educated, rather than the local schools on Germania Hyperborea and Jötunheim.

Even slaves often receive some education. As slaves are often leased from the state for life, making their employer effectively their owner, it is economically sound for owners employing slaves for complex technical tasks to ensure that they are at least as well trained for their professions as graduates of citizen vocational schools, if perhaps not as well versed in German history and Aryan studies. The ultimate goal of the ASN government is for even non-Aryan slave children to receive free education from state schools established in every settlement, albeit only four-grade elementary school and, according to a decree by the Reichsführer-SS, that education should only "teach them how to write their own name, to count up to 500 and to obey Germans".

Currently, many slave children do indeed attend state-run schools designed to do this, but because the practical responsibility for slaves generally resides with their employer, for all that they are officially wards of the state, some slaves are never allowed to attend school (e.g. those destined only for hard labour and perhaps eventually to become Spawn of the Cold Ones), but other slaves sometimes attend educational programs that are tailored toward maximising their future value as workers and which may include a comprehensive technical education, especially for apparently intelligent slave children and/or the ofspring of highly valued slave specialists.

Secondary and advanced education for citizens is generally good. There are very good schools on the demiplane for the children of SS men and elites, with various experts and professors augmenting the instruction and indocrination of the SS-Helferinen. The SS-Junkerschulen, where prospective SS men are taught administration, leadership, estate managment, agricultural science, military science and Aryan studies, are extremely effective educational institutions, even through they are obviously designed to indoctrinate as well as instruct. Girls will generally be pushed toward education in fields perceived as suitable for women, but this includes various professions requiring not only secondary education, but sometimes university degrees, such as positions in higher education and some medical fields.

Given how many places in the ASN colonies are linked to the demiplane with gates, even men who are stationed elsewhere for important projects will usually be able to make quick trips over the World Tree to visit Wahr Wewelsburg. Indeed, from the main settlements on the other two main worlds, it is so easy as to amount to walking to another room. This means that almost all the scholars and university-educated experts who are participating in vital projects elsewhere are also able to teach the next generation, as an integral part of their duties to the Reich.

Vocational training will often be connected to the corporations and institutions that employ people with such education. Apprenticeships remain common and corporations who employ citizens or even non-citizens in complicated technical tasks requiring literacy and full vocational training will often set up such schools themselves. Some secondary or vocational schools are open to Deutschblütig citizens only, but generally education up to the limits of interest and ability is fairly easily available to all children of citizens.

Legally, parents are responsible to see that their children get at least a primary education, but practically, most citizens marticulate no earlier than age eighteen, either from academic gymnasiums, from vocational schools or professional apprenticeships (these might last longer in highly technical fields, but then a certificate is often issued at eighteen before the apprentice leaves for military service, after which he will pick up his apprenticeship again as a senior apprentice).

All citizens receive military or paramilitary training as part of their educations, but only males perform military service. This is two years, but will often consist of technical support duties rather than front-line service. Increasing numbers of citizens go through training and then discharge their military obligations through part-time work for the state. All citizens remain reservists throughout their adult lives, but front-line fignting is almost exclusively the province of professional soldiers.

Only citiens, Aryan-slaves in the process of becoming freedmen or allied peoples who receive a special dispention are allowed university education. Aside from SS-run universities in and around Wahr Wewelsburg, there are also both private and public universities in several of the main settlements on Germania Hyperborea and even in Jötunheim (especially scientific research programs, engineering and technical schools). Indeed, given the German respect for university education, much of the manueuvering for status and influence in the Neue Reich is centered around educational establishments.

Someone who has more Herr Doktoren on their side in a political dispute has an advantage and establishing a university is a way to cultivate influence among both the current generation and coming ones. The NSDAP and various old and new Nazi organizations are competing with the SS on both the quality and quantity of their educational institutions, with an increasing number of rich industrialists funding schools and universities as a socially acceptable way to buy influence for themselves and their companies.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:09 AM   #175
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Default Aryan/Germanic/Nordic Places of Power in Völkisch or Ariasophic Myth

Other than Wewelsburg, the Externsteine, the alleged Irminsul of the Teutoburg Forest, the various sites in Saxony and the Black Forest that Karl Maria Wiligut identified as Irmin-Krist settlements or an Irminist complex, Goslar, Gnitaheidr where Siefried slew the dragon Fafner (now Knetterheide in Bad Salzuflen), and the Venusberg that Wagner's Tannhäuser travels through to meet the fey, and is reputed to be a pathway to the underworld, what are other Places of Power than Nazi mystics considered sacred to the German Volk or the Aryan root race in general?

Bonus points if they involve pathways to the underworld, the land of faeries or some other legendry having to do with travel, crossroads or gateways. Extra bonus points if the Ahnenerbe really were interested in it.

Important note, does not actually have to have any connection with archeological evidence or even plausible conjecture that has actual Nordic, Germanic or even Indo-European people in the area. It is enough if occultists with a connection to Himmler or other leading Nazis thought that some ancient people were Aryans, Germans or Nordic Atlanteans, no matter how ludicruous that sounds using modern (or even just sane) archeology .

Yes, that means it could be in Tibet, the Gobi Desert, sites sacred to 'Nordic Romans' anywhere from Etruria through the Adriatic, Balkans and Greece, various sites in India, the alleged cradle of the Goths (wherever the Ahnenerbe were imagining it that week, be that Sweden, the Crimea, the Danube Delta or elsewhere on the shores of the Black Sea).

Even as delusion-made-truth, though, in the form of a gate to a place and culture that will be nothing like what the völkisch fantasists imagined (for one thing, there will rarely be anyone speaking German there), I'm not touching Bolivia or other South American sites as Aryan homelands, and neither the Egyptians or Sumerians shall suffer the indignity of Antarctic Space Nazi visits. Largely, I'll admit, because I want those parts of the world to be distant, inaccessible and mysterious to the Antarctic Space Nazis.
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:06 PM   #176
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Default Re: Education and the Lords of the Last Waste

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Yes, there are thousands of educated SS-Helferinen who'll establish primary schools in Wahr Wewelsburg and around it, with children between ages six and twelve expected to attend there. ... The NSDAP and various old and new Nazi organizations are competing with the SS on both the quality and quantity of their educational institutions, with an increasing number of rich industrialists funding schools and universities as a socially acceptable way to buy influence for themselves and their companies.
So, they're essentially continuing the German educational system, with the Christianity stripped out and replaced with Nazism and Germanic paganism?

That is going to give rise to some interesting social stresses. They will have to acknowledge the existence of Christianity and Judaism because the history of Nazism doesn't make sense without that information. Starting in about year 15, they're going to have teenagers wondering what about those religions made them so wrong and so hated. They may end up with underground versions of those religions, pieced together incorrectly from scarce clues.

It's kind of like the way that in Paranoia, Communism keeps reappearing because anything The Computer is so concerned about must be interesting. Indeed, Bolshevism may exist as an underground movement among the ASN. There's potential for all kinds of Alpha Complex-like secret societies. See also this recent quote.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:29 PM   #177
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Default Re: Education and the Lords of the Last Waste

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So, they're essentially continuing the German educational system, with the Christianity stripped out and replaced with Nazism and Germanic paganism?
Well, yes. Essentially. That is, there were senior Antarctic Space Nazis who wanted to change a lot more, but given that SS men formed 'only' about 5-15% of the settlers* (actual Nazi Germany had around 1%), there were limits to how much change they could force down the throats of powerful, important people among the managers, administrators, scientists, engineers and technical experts.

Some of the inner circle had some very strong feelings on education and had spent years administering Nazi and SS alternatives to traditional education. SS-Obergruppenführer August Heissmeyer (d. Year 35), Inspector of the Nationalpolitische Erziehungsanstalten (Napola), was one of the inner circle, as was Dr. Joachim Caesar (d. Year 40), former head of the SS Education Office, and Himmler himself spent a lot of time thinking about educating the next generation of Nazis and future SS officers. Gottlob Berger (d. Year 31) was a former school inspector, as well as the father of Waffen-SS recruitment and training.

Reichsjugendführer Arthur Axmann, leader of the Hitler Youth, was not part of the absolute inner circle of SS leaders who planned the Neue Reich and learned about the ASN only at the last minute, but he managed to escape to the new world along with Bormann and obviously has some strong views on how to raise children as Nazis. As he has outlived many of the original inner circle and the next generations of leaders were often moulded by him, the 83-year-old Axmann has grown more important over time and in the Year 51 is a hugely influential elder statesman, respected and beloved by both the SS leadership and most factions in the NSDAP.

Dr. Jutta Rüdiger, whose Bund Deutscher Mädel has been a vital part of ASN indoctrination and a source of many SS-Helferinnen, has had influence out of all proportion with the subordinate status of her movement. In part this is due to her utter devotion to her work and in part due to her longevity, as in Year 51, she is still spry and alert at age 85 and remains the honorary Reichsreferentin des BDM, having only formally retired ten years ago (and neither of the two holders of the position since then having dared to deviate in any way from her wishes).

Her eternal and bitter rival is Heissmeyer's wife, Reichsfrauenführerin Gertrud Scholtz-Klink-Heissmeyer, leader of the Nationalsozialistische Frauenschaft, who also carved out a role, mainly in adult 'education' and indoctrination for women, which includes native born Aryans who achive citizenship. Also long-lived, Reichsfrauenführerin Scholtz-Klink-Heissmeyer is living, spry and still holding her position in Year 51.

*Depending on how to count Waffen-SS men who did not hold Allegemeine-SS rank, not to mention men who had joined the SS at some point, but were not active in it in any way. The actual politically significant SS men among the settlers, whose primary loyalty was to that organization, ahead of the NSDAP, Germany or any other group, consisted of maybe 5% at the very most, with only about half that being truly committed to Himmler's vision and not having any kind of conflicted loyalties. That being said, about 40-45% of the initial settlers were members of the NSDAP. In Year 51, SS men (not counting those serving with the Waffen-SS) make up about 1% of free citizens and 22% of the citizens are members of the NSDAP, but this is deceptive, in that this represents merely the fact that minors under the age of 18 outnumber adults and that these numbers actually represent about 10% of the population being from SS families and 60% of free, adult citizens being NSDAP members.

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That is going to give rise to some interesting social stresses. They will have to acknowledge the existence of Christianity and Judaism because the history of Nazism doesn't make sense without that information. Starting in about year 15, they're going to have teenagers wondering what about those religions made them so wrong and so hated. They may end up with underground versions of those religions, pieced together incorrectly from scarce clues.
Yep. And don't forget how much of their mythology, like most of German history, literature and mythology from the 8th century to the 20th, has explicitly Christian heroes, themes and morals. Unless they ban Wagner and more or less all the great German literature, they'll have teenagers growing up with romantic notions of Christian knights, kings and heroes, like Parsifal, Gawain, Lohengrin, Tannhäuser, Siegfried, Dietrich von Bern, Walther von Stolzing, Heinrich der Vogler, Heinrich der Löwe, Friedrich I Barbarossa, etc.

Not to mention that quite a few of the people recruited for skills and not politics, among the original Antarctic Space Nazi settlers, will have been Christian, and that some of them will be crucial enough to the early success of the settlement to make enforcing a law forbidding them their Christian faith self-defeating. As the Nazis so often did, the ASNs therefore passed draconian laws, but then quietly enforced them very selectively, which allowed the elite to break them.

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It's kind of like the way that in Paranoia, Communism keeps reappearing because anything The Computer is so concerned about must be interesting. Indeed, Bolshevism may exist as an underground movement among the ASN. There's potential for all kinds of Alpha Complex-like secret societies. See also this recent quote.
Indeed.

Though actual Bolshevism is not likely to enjoy any favour with the social groups most likely to form a counterweight to the SS in ASN society. But there are firebrands within the modern NSDAP in Year 51 who definitely seek their support from among the farm workers who see their sweat and blood enrich SS Junkers, as well as some brave souls trying to build support among the industrial workers on Jötunheim.

There are certainly young NSDAP politicians who are inspired by the Socialist part of the name and whose rhetoric echoes the socialist and communist agitators that the original Brownshirts fought against. The SS has become the party of conservative reaction, for all that they are all registered as NSDAP members, and despite the one party system, factions within the NSDAP are for all intents and purposes growing into rival political parties that strives for influence within the Party machine.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:08 PM   #178
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Default Re: Antarctic Space Nazis Across the Multiverse

You know, the more I hear about the setting, the less I like it. I just like the idea of bringing Nazis to justice more than I like the idea of Nazis escaping justice for decades. In my opinion, Nazis make better targets than they make heroes and having entire generations being raised Nazi without external influences who enslaved the natives just means that you have an entire world of targets.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:26 PM   #179
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Default Re: Antarctic Space Nazis Across the Multiverse

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You know, the more I hear about the setting, the less I like it. I just like the idea of bringing Nazis to justice more than I like the idea of Nazis escaping justice for decades. In my opinion, Nazis make better targets than they make heroes and having entire generations being raised Nazi without external influences who enslaved the natives just means that you have an entire world of targets.
Eh, I like Non-Player Characters, not just targets. Video games are a far superior media to role-playing if you are just going to interact with anyone not explicitly on the heroes' side as either targets or quest-givers.

One of the reasons I like Antarctic Space Nazis as villains is that they are frightening, nasty and come with easy-to-hate pre-packaged motivations and associations, but they're also based on an ideology and people who really existed, which means that they're a lot more complex and nuanced than most servants of a Generic Evil Empire.

I mean, yes, this Antarctic Space Nazi society is somehow even crazier and darker than the actual Nazis (no easy feat), what with their Faustian bargain with world-ending, necromantic Things Man Was Not Meant to Know (which bargain, however, is a deep dark secret of the innermost circle of the leaders), but at the same time, any human society will be home to ordinary people with the same human feelings and desires as any of us, just wanting to provide a safe home and bright future for their loved ones.

Can PCs shoot the Antarctic Space Nazis? Sure. And they have done so before and will do again.

But can they just treat them as targets without human qualities?

No, not if the PCs are supposed to be any better than the worst Nazis in history.

And not if everyone is to have fun, because it's a hell of a lot more fun to have PCs fall for the beautiful Nazi girl (hello, Elsa Schneider!), have faux-polite conversations with the aristocratic SS officers and come to reluctantly admire some of the Waffen-SS they face in battle than it is to have them shoot Nazis with all the emotional investment they bring to target practice. Despicable villains intermixed with crackpots who are funny and scary at the same time, interlaced with the occasional honorable foe, sympathetic opponent, rivals who aren't open enemies and just regular people caught in a strange situation, are a lot more fun than just targets.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:31 PM   #180
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Default Re: Antarctic Space Nazis Across the Multiverse

Given Martin Bormann's general personality, and totally self serving nature (even for a NAZI), I suspect that his new home will be a shallow grave. NO one will trust him here.
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